>
Title: Shri N.N. Krishnadas called the attention of the Minister of Railways on situation arising out of the proposed formation of Salem Railway Division by bifurcating Palghat Railway Division and steps taken by the Government in this regard.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, I call the attention of the hon. Minister of Railways to the following matter of urgent public importance and request that he may make a statement thereon.
“The situation arising out of the proposed formation of Salem Railway Division by bifurcating Palghat Railway Division and steps taken by the Government in this regard.”
… (Interruptions)
SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY (SRIPERUMBUDUR): Sir, Salem Railway Division should be started immediately. … (Interruptions)
SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): Sir, Salem Division should be started immediately. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will allow one hon. Member from Tamil Nadu to speak.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I have said that. It is very unfortunate that you are interrupting.
यह क्या बात हो रही है?
…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: You have not given any notice. Shri Krishnaswamy, I have committed that I would allow one hon. Member from Tamil Nadu to speak. Let the hon. Minister make the Statement.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लाल मुनी चौबे (बक्सर) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैंने भी नोटिस दी है, उस पर आप क्या कार्यवाही करेंगे?
* Also placed in Library, See No. LT- 6729/07)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : क्या कार्यवाही करूंगा, यह सही समय पर बताएंगे। आप भी कभी स्पीकर थे, आप जानते हैं कि क्या काम है। आपको तो रोल माडल बनना चाहिए। Do not mislead them.
आइए, आपको सब बातें बताएंगे और हम दोनों बैठकर चाय पीएंगे।
…( व्यवधान)
रेल मंत्री (श्री लालू प्रसाद) : महोदय, सलेम डिवीजन की मांग काफी पुरानी है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please keep silence. It is a very important matter. You are all agitated. Let us now hear what the Minister says.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : महोदय, सलेम डिवीजन की मांग काफी पुरानी है। दिसंबर, 2005 में तमिलनाडु के माननीय सांसदों ने फिर से इस मांग को दोहराया था। मैंने केरल के माननीय सांसदों से भी इस संबंध में विचार-विमर्श किया था। …( व्यवधान) अब मैं जवाब दे रहा हूँ तो आप लोग ध्यान से सुनिए।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: If you disturb like this, I will postpone the Calling Attention. You have allowed Shri N.N. Krishnadas to call the attention of the hon. Minister. Now, you are interrupting him.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : महोदय, मैंने केरल के माननीय सांसदों से भी इस संबंध में विचार-विमर्श किया था। तदुपरांत वर्ष 2005-06 की पूरक मांगों पर जवाब देते हुए दिनांक 12-12-2005 को प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन के निर्माण की सैद्धांतिक रूप से घोषणा की गयी थी। इस नए डिवीजन के लिए एक विशेष कार्याधिकारी भी नियुक्त किया गया है। दक्षिण रेलवे से प्राप्त प्रस्ताव के आलोक में सेलम डिवीजन का कार्यक्षेत्र निम्न प्रकार से प्रस्तावित किया गया है।
सेक्शन
रूट किलोमीटर
मंडल से
ऊडगमंडलम-कोयंबटूर नार्थ जं0
79
पालघाट
कोयंबटूर नार्थ जं.-इरोड जं.-जोलारपेट्टी जं.(छोडकर)
277
पालघाट
इरूगर-पोडानूर (जोड़कर) कोयंबटूर नार्थ जं.
19
पालघाट
सेलम जं.-करूर जं.
85
नई लाइन
करूर-डिंडीगुल जं.(छोड़कर)
74
पालघाट
सेलम जं. वृद्धाचलम जं.(छोड़कर)
135
त्रिचुरापल्ली
सेलम जं. मेट्टूर डैम(छोड़कर)
37
पालघाट
ईरोड जं.-त्रिचुरापल्ली जं. (छोड़कर)
137
पालघाट[R16]
इस प्रकार प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन को बनाने के लिए पालघाट से 623 रूट किलोमीटर, त्रिचुरापल्ली से 135 रूट किलोमीटर तथा निर्माणाधीन नई लाइन का 85 रूट किलोमीटर लिया गया है। प्रस्तावित विभाजन के उपरांत पालघाट डिवीजन में 509 किलोमीटर की वर्तमान लाइन तथा 36 किलोमीटर की निर्माणाधीन लाइन के रूट किलोमीटर बच जाएंगे। प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन के कार्यक्षेत्र के बारे में अंतिम रूप से अभी तक गजट में अधिसूचना जारी नहीं की गई है।
प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन का अधिकांश कार्यक्षेत्र पालघाट डिवीजन से लिया गया तथा पालघाट डिवीजन का कार्यक्षेत्र प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन से कम हो गया है जो केरल के माननीय सदस्यों के विरोध का एक कारण है। केरल के माननीय सांसदों ने यह भी आपत्ति की है कि पालघाट डिवीजन का बंटवारा अवैज्ञानिक ढंग से किया गया है और पालघाट का आकार छोटा होने के कारण यह आर्थिक रूप से औचित्यपूर्ण नहीं रह गया है। इस संबंध में केरल के मुख्य मंत्री एवं दोनों सदनों के कई माननीय सदस्यों ने मुझसे मिलकर एवं पत्र लिखकर अपनी आपत्ति दर्ज कराई है।
केरल के मुख्य मंत्री ने माननीय प्रधान मंत्री को पत्र लिखकर इस संबंध में अपनी आपत्ति जाहिर की थी। माननीय प्रधान मंत्री ने दिनांक 24 जुलाई, 2007 को मुझे पत्र लिखकर दोनों राज्यों के मुख्यमंत्रियों से विचार विमर्श कर इस मसले का आपसी सहमति से मान्य हल निकालने के लिए कहा है। मैंने दोनों राज्यों के मुख्यमंत्रियों को पत्र लिखकर यह आग्रह किया है कि वे मिल बैठकर आपसी सहमति से इस समस्या का हल निकालें। लेकिन अभी तक दोनों राज्यों के मुख्यमंत्रियों के साथ यह बैठक संभव नहीं हो पाई है। मैं दोनों राज्यों के मुख्यमंत्रियों से पुनः अनुरोध करता हूं कि वे जल्द ही एक सुविधाजनक तिथि निर्धारित करके आपसी सहमति से इस समस्या का हल निकालें।
ध्यानाकर्षण प्रस्ताव में यह भी उद्धृत किया गया है कि केरल के लिए नए वेस्ट कोस्ट जोन के सृजन में अत्यधिक देरी हो रही है। इस संबंध में मैं सदन को बताना चाहूंगा कि भारतीय रेल के विशाल नेटवर्क का विभिन्न जोनों एवं डिवीजनों में विभाजन के मानदंड कार्यभार, भौगोलिक फैलाव, यातायात प्रवाह का पैटर्न, आर्थिक औचित्य और अन्य परिचालनिक एवं प्रशासनिक सुविधाओं आदि के आधार पर किया जाता है। इस आधार पर केरल के नए वेस्ट कोस्ट जोन के निर्माण का कोई प्रस्ताव विचाराधीन नहीं है। इस आशय की जानकारी केरल के माननीय सांसदों को पत्र द्वारा दी गई है। दिनांक 2.12.2004 को मैं इस नए जोन की अव्यावहारिकता के संबंध में सदन को भी अवगत करा चुका हूं। चूंकि केरल में नए जोन के सृजन का कोई प्रस्ताव विचाराधीन ही नहीं है इसलिए इसमें विलंब का कोई प्रश्न ही नहीं उठता है।
[r17]
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, Mr. Krishnadas.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am calling one by one. Everybody is violating the rule; nobody is following the rule.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, as all the hon. Members and you also know well that the Indian Railways is not only the transport carrier, it is also a great symbol of the unity and integrity of our country. That is why while taking up to set up any new division or a zone, it should not be done in a linguistic manner. As I told earlier, it should be our concern to uphold the unity and integrity of our country.… (Interruptions)
We have a case. It is not against our friends from Tamil Nadu or for that matter any other State.… (Interruptions) We are taking up the matter with the Indian Railways… (Interruptions)
SHRI C. KUPPUSAMI (MADRAS NORTH): Mr. Speaker, Sir… (Interruptions)
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, there is not a single word I am talking against our friends from Tamil Nadu.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I would call one of the hon. Members from Tamil Nadu also to make a submission. I have already said that.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is this? You are all very senior and responsible Members.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI E. PONNUSWAMY (CHIDAMBARAM): We are also not against any national interest… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: We know that. He is also an hon. Member and you are also an hon. Member of the House.
Mr. Krishnadas, make your submission and please be brief.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Sir, we are taking up the matter with the Union Ministry and the Railway Minister only.
Sir, in the reply of the hon. Railway Minister, it has been wrongly quoted that ‘the hon. Members of Parliament of Kerala were also consulted in this matter.’ It is quite unfair. It is totally wrong that we were consulted.… (Interruptions) This is my first point.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, it is so painful. We do not think of us as Indians.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am very sorry that the hon. Members of Parliament do not consider themselves as Indians first. We are Indians first. I would not like this thing to go on like this.
Are we not the Indians first? Is this an Assembly of Kerala or Tamil Nadu? You are all Indians first but you are not behaving like Indians.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is this ‘no, no’? You are saying: ‘no, no’. We will do that.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats. I would call one of the hon. Members from Tamil Nadu also to speak.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please do not record even one word from any other Member except the submission of Mr. Krishnadas. Nothing will be recorded.
(Interruptions)* …
MR. SPEAKER: Then you fight it out on the street! I would adjourn this matter.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : It is my humble request to the hon. Railway Minister, Shri Laluji that this sentence ‘the hon. Members of Parliament of Kerala were also consulted in this matter’ may be deleted from his Statement.
MR. SPEAKER: Okay, all right. That is your request.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Yes, Sir.
* Not recorded
The second point is that we agree with his statement where he has mentioned that the major portion of the jurisdiction of the proposed Salem Division has been taken from Palghat Division.
MR. SPEAKER: He had made a request to the two hon. Chief Ministers to meet. He says that there is no question of delaying any other Division. Let the two Chief Ministers meet.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Yeah. I am welcoming rest of his statement, Sir.
He has said that ‘the major portion of the jurisdiction of the proposed Salem Division has been taken from Palghat Division and the residual jurisdiction of Palghat Division has become less than that of Salem Division.’
MR. SPEAKER: He has admitted it.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : So, there was a proposal brought before the House. We never opposed it. How can we oppose it? How can we say that ‘no, there is not at all any new Division or a Zone required in the country.’ We cannot say like that.
MR. SPEAKER: Put your question.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : But it should be a formation. Formation means, setting up of a new Division centralized with Salem, in a justified and rationalized manner taking into account the route kilometers and the jurisdiction area from all the nearby area. It may be from Chennai Division, from Trichi Division, from Madurai Division as well as from Palghat Division. Therefore, it should be a formation and not a bifurcation.
MR. SPEAKER: Put your question, please.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Sir, formation was the proposal but instead of formation, the existing Palghat Division is being bifurcated. We have submitted that after the bifurcation, the Palghat Division would no longer remain financially viable, which is also pointed out in the Statement of the hon. Minister.[r18]
[MSOffice19]
Thus, that is unjustifiable and irrational. This is my humble request. How can one mother give birth to a new baby which is bigger than the size of the mother? Definitely, the mother will be killed. That justice we are asking from the Government of India, especially, from the Union Railway Minister. That is the justice we need. So, this is my question.
MR. SPEAKER: He will answer. You give him a chance.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : What is the difficulty to make a new Salem Division formation taking from all other nearby areas also?
MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shrimati Sujatha.
You are only entitled to put one question.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : And the other point and that is related to the last sentence. He denied the request which was forwarded by several Members of Parliament and the Government of Kerala to set up a new Zone, South West Zone. He denied it in the text. It has also been cited in the Calling Attention.
MR. SPEAKER: He said, there is no decision taken.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : No, Sir. Please give me one minute. The Zones and Divisions are based on the criterion of workload, geographical spread, pattern of traffic flows, economic viability and other operating and administrative requirements.
MR. SPEAKER: He has said that.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : This is the criteria they are following. This is the convention, precedent which is followed by the Indian Railways. Then, what is the justification for denying? If you are creating a new Division at Salem with all these criteria, then what is the justification to deny this South West Zone in the country?
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, your questions have already been put.
Now, Shrimati Sujatha.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : The third point which I would like to mention, through you, Sir, is this. This is a request. Now, with the consultation of both the Chief Ministers only, the territorial jurisdiction will be finalized. In writing itself, earlier itself, he assured this august House.
MR. SPEAKER: Why do you not persuade your Chief Minster?
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : But unilaterally, the MoS has announced the inauguration of the Salem Division on 15th September. May I know from the hon. Minister whether the territorial jurisdiction has been finalized and fixed up for the inauguration of this proposed Salem Division? I would like to know this also from the hon. Minister.
MR. SPEAKER: That is enough. You have made your point very, very ably.
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Thank you, Sir, for giving this opportunity.
MR. SPEAKER: Shrimati Sujatha. You put only question.
श्रीमती सी.एस. सुजाता (मवेलीकारा) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, क्या मैं अपनी मातृभाषा में बोल सकती हूं?
MR. SPEAKER: It is not for the speech but only for the question.
SHRIMATI C.S. SUJATHA (MAVELIKARA) : I fully endorse the opinions expressed here by my colleague Shri Krishna Das. After the formation of the Southern Railway in 1951, Kerala has been neglected time and again and the decision to destroy Palghat Division is only the latest step in a series of injustice meted out to us. Palghat Railway Division is among the oldest railway divisions in India.
We are not against the formation of Salem Division. But it should not be carved out by destroying Palghat division. The present decision is aimed at destroying Palghat Division. The Minister said that the total length of the Palghat Division will be reduced, with the formation of the Salem division.
Shri Krishna Das said that it will be like the mother giving birth to a child which is bigger than her. Sir, we heard the reply of the Minster in the House and Shri Krishna Das also quoted it here in the House.
The Minister said that the boundary of the Salem Division should be fixed only after the discussion between the Chief Ministers of the two states takes place. Respected Chief Minister of Kerala has expressed his consent for such a discussion.
But on the one hand you say in the House that discussions will be held and on the other hand you go ahead with the formation of the Salem Division. This is not a right step. This is a violation of the assurance given in the House.
The respected Minister should fulfill the assurance he has given on the floor of the House and he also mentioned about the Railway zone. There should be the formation of a Railway zone with Kerala as its centre. Where there is a will there is a way. Lalu ji, the people of Kerala have great expectations from you and you should fulfill these expectations.
रेल मंत्री लालू जी जो केरल के मित्र हैं, वहां की जनता को उनसे कुछ उम्मीदें हैं।
*English translation of the speech originally delivered in Malayalam
MR. SPEAKER : Nothing more. Shri Suresh Kurup to speak.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Only a clarificatory question is to be asked. Please look at Rule 197.
ADV. SURESH KURUP (KOTTAYAM): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing this Calling Attention. The reply given by the hon. Minister is quite disappointing. I would like to again reiterate that at no point of time none of us were consulted regarding this Salem Division. I would also like to say that if consulted, we would not have objected to the formation of Salem Division. Our objection is not for the formation of the Salem Division but a major chunk of the Palghat Division, a Division which has been in existence right from the beginning of Indian Railways is being taken away.
MR. SPEAKER : It is the same point.
ADV. SURESH KURUP : It is a very profitable Division. A major chunk of that Division is being taken away. There are other Divisions which have route kilometers of 1,175 kilometers. The Madurai Division has a route kilometers of 1,451 kilometers. These two Divisions have got route kilometers which is higher than that of Palghat Division.
MR. SPEAKER : He has mentioned that. Please put your question.
ADV. SURESH KURUP : Sir, only from Palghat Division a major area is taken away. As has been rightly pointed out, Indian Railways is a symbol of our national integration. Why do you now sow the seeds of fissiparous tendencies by doing such an act?
I would like to know what is the criterion employed for this formation of this new Division by taking away all the areas from Palghat Division and by allowing other Divisions to exist without any disturbance. I want to know whether any study has been conducted regarding this. During the time of the previous Government, four new Railway zones were created. Whenever we ask for a Railway zone, suddenly the Planning Commission comes into existence and immediately all other sorts of difficulties are put forward. The other areas in other States are being given new Railway zones and Railway divisions. But, whenever we demand a Railway zone or division, which has been a long-standing Division, just like the Salem Division, we are told that it is not possible.
I would like to know that in view of all the protests in Kerala, will you take into consideration seriously the long-standing demand of a Railway zone for Kerala, a Southern Zone for Kerala. Will the inauguration of this new Railway Division be postponed till the meeting of the Chief Ministers takes place and an amicable solution is found for this?
MR. SPEAKER : Thank you very much. It was a good question.
Shri P.C. Thomas – not present.
Shri Ajaya Kumar to ask a question now.
SHRI S. AJAYA KUMAR (OTTAPALAM): Thank you, Sir. My colleagues have mentioned so many points. … (Interruptions) I am not going into the details.
MR. SPEAKER : You are not entitled to go into the details. You are only entitled to put a clarificatory question.
SHRI S. AJAYA KUMAR : Sir, the demand for a Railway Division at Salem is very old. This is absolutely a very wrong statement. I may say that the Rakesh Mohan Committee Report of 1996 had decided to set up seven new Zones and eight new Divisions to increase the efficiency. However, the creation of Salem Division was not included therein. So, how has this come up and how was it created without taking the opinion of the Railway Reforms Committee? When will the Government take into account the concerns of RRC? This is my first question.
You have yielded for the demand for creation of a new Division. But, whenever Kerala’s demand for a new Zone comes up, all sorts of arguments are raised against it. So, will the Government seriously consider our long-pending demand for a new Railway Zone?
MR. SPEAKER : Shri Kurup has mentioned that. Shri Thangkabalu to speak now. [MSOffice20]
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU (SALEM): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you. In the beginning, we met you and discussed with you.
अध्यक्ष महोदय : हमारे साथ कुछ डिस्कस नहीं हुआ है। You only came and met me.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : We came and requested you.
MR. SPEAKER: I have given you the chance. Utilise that chance.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Not only me, 40 Members from Tamil Nadu want to represent their case. Kindly allow us.
MR. SPEAKER: Do not bother about others. You speak for yourself.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Okay, Sir.
The request for Salem Railway Division was made by the people of Tamil Nadu, by and large. Our Chief Minister, Dr. Kalaignar Karunanidhi and leaders of all political parties and we requested the UPA leadership and everybody in total.
MR. SPEAKER: Put your question.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : They have sanctioned this. Now, our friends on this side say that there is no logic and no rationality. Rationality and logic is always there. It is due to that that the long-pending and long-felt need of Tamil people and aspiration of Tamil people was met by this announcement of the Government of India, for which we are thankful to them. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: If you people fight like this, the whole country will be fragmented!
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, with regard to jurisdiction, I would submit that only 544 route kilometres are given to Tamil Nadu instead of … (Interruptions) Please listen. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will ask the Minister to reply, if you cannot sit down.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Minister Saheb, just a minute.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, I have just started.
MR. SPEAKER: If you cannot put a question, I will go back to him.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, I will put a question.
MR. SPEAKER: Do it.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : There are two issues raised in this House.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The whole country is being divided on this.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : No, Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: What not? On the issues of water, railway and everything, the whole country is being divided.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, we are not linguistic and we are not talking of … (Interruptions) We want fair justice to be given to Tamil Nadu and the people of Tamil Nadu. We have asked this. In fact, we are not taking any area of Kerala at all.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri A. Krishnaswamy.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, in fact, we want that the Salem Division, as announced, should be implemented.
MR. SPEAKER: I have understood.
SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : They are talking about Chief Ministers’ meeting. There is no need to have a meeting of Chief Ministers in this regard. The Supreme Court has rejected it totally.
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing more to be recorded.
(Interruptions)* …
MR. SPEAKER: Shri A. Krishnaswamy, if you do not begin, I will allow him to speak.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Thangkabalu, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Thangkabalu, take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY (SRIPERUMBUDUR): Thank you, Sir. Whatever the Minister says is right. We had a meeting two years before between the Members of Parliament of Tamil Nadu and Kerala. We had a consensus to have Salem Division.
MR. SPEAKER: What is your question?
SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : The Members of Kerala are denying it, but if you allow Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan, he will accept it because he presided over that meeting. In that meeting, before Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan only, we agreed for Salem Division, but today, they are denying it.
Today, the formation of Salem Division has been passed in the Budget and Rs. 20 crore have been allocated; Rs. 3 crore have been released; and Rs. 1.5 crore have been spent in this regard.
They had filed a case before the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court has denied and dismissed their complaint.
Now, we have fixed 14th September to inaugurate the Salem Division. … (Interruptions) The Railway Department has fixed this date. It should not be delayed; it should be inaugurated as early as possible. … (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : मिनिस्टर साहब आप जवाब दीजिए।
…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Only hon. Minister’s statement will be recorded.
(Interruptions)* …
MR. SPEAKER: You have very ably put your case, hon. Members from Kerala. I had given the opportunity to some hon. Members from Tamil Nadu. The whole country knows what the problem is. Let the hon. Minister give his reply.
… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded
MR. SPEAKER: This is not a market place; this is Parliament of India. Please sit down.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It seems we are making all efforts to divide the country as much as possible! Irrespective of whether it is railway, water or anything else, let us not divide the country. You are talking of patriotism of the soldiers; and do Members not have to show patriotism?
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप जवाब देते रहिए।
…( व्यवधान)[s21]
श्री लालू प्रसाद : महोदय…( व्यवधान) आप बोलने दीजिए। लैट मी स्पीक।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बोलते रहिये।
श्री लालू प्रसाद : सर, ये फिर वही कंफ्यूजन दे रहे हैं।
MR. SPEAKER: You kindly address the Chair, and finish your reply.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): Sir, I may be allowed to explain the position with regard to this issue. … (Interruptions)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : राधाकृष्णन जी, आप बाद में बोलिये।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : मंत्री जी, आप बोलिये।
श्री लालू प्रसाद : दोनों राज्य हमारे देश के राज्य हैं, हमें दोनों प्यारे हैं और किसी भी झगड़े-झंझट को खत्म करने के लिए ऐसा नहीं है कि हमने आकर एकाएक कोई घोषणा कर दी। दो दिन बैठक हुई और मैं धन्यवाद देता हूं, राधाकृष्णन जी सीनियर मैम्बर है, वह स्वयं तथा केरल के माननीय सासंद भी बतायेंगे कि आपने…( व्यवधान) आप जाइये और बनवाइये, हम नहीं बोलेंगे। …( व्यवधान)
SHRI P. KARUNAKARAN (KASARGOD): Therefore, he may be allowed to speak on this issue. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is very unfair. You had given a notice for a Calling Attention, and I allowed the notice. I invited you to give a notice for a Call Attention, and the Minister had made a statement. Thereafter, you have made your points with regard to this issue. Will you not allow the hon. Minister to reply? What is this Calling Attention for then? प्लीज आप मेहरबानी करके बैठ जाइये।
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. Now, you know Hindi very well.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I may be permitted to speak. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I would not allow you to speak. Everybody cannot be allowed to speak.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : यह गलत बात है। …( व्यवधान) आप राइट हैं और हम क्या रांग हैं?…( व्यवधान) यह गलत बात है…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बोलते रहिये।
श्री लालू प्रसाद : महोदय, दो दिन बैठक हुई और यहां बजट भाषण में हमने यह कहा था कि एक नया डिवीजन क्रिएट किया जायेगा। जब भी कोई डिवीजन क्रिएट होता है तो बंटवारा होना अवश्यंभावी है, आप पूरे देश को देखें। झगड़ा इस बात का है कि लैंथ ऑफ दि रेलवे लाइन तमिलनाडु को ज्यादा मिल गया। जहां तक केरल राज्य का सवाल है, नये सेलम डिवीजन के लिए एक इंच भी भूमि का अधिग्रहण नहीं किया गया है, उल्टे 24 किलोमीटर तमिलनाडु का अभी पालघाट में है। फिर भी लोगों को असंतोष है। आप सभी लोग कहिये, किस स्तर पर केरल के लोग मिले हैं, पक्ष-विपक्ष के लोग श्रीमती सोनिया जी से मिले, प्रधान मंत्री जी से मिले। हमने किसी भी झगड़े को टालने के लिए प्रयास किया है। यह कोई बहुत गम्भीर समस्या नहीं है, जिसके लिए हम लोग आपस में कोई वातावरण खराब करने का काम करें। इन चीजों का असर पड़ता है। इसलिए जो स्टेटस है, देश भर में पहले जो डिवीजन्स की क्रिएशन हुई है, वह मैं माननीय सदस्यों को बताना चाहता हूं कि मुम्बई मध्य रेलवे में 524 किलोमीटर है, पुणे का 505 किलोमीटर है, मुगलसराय में 317 किलोमीटर है, सोनपुर, जो हमारे क्षेत्र में हैं, 473 किलोमीटर का है, मालदा में 438 किलोमीटर है, तिनसुकिया में 511 किलोमीटर है, रायपुर में 355 किलोमीटर है, रांची में 442 है। मैं यहां संक्षेप में बताना चाहता हूं कि अभी बंटवारे के बाद, यह बात सही है और मैंने कबूल किया है कि लोगों को ऐसा दिखता है कि सेलम डिवीजन में ज्यादा चला गया। जबकि जो पालघाट बड़ा था, यह उसमें गया है, यह बात हमने जवाब में भी कही है। इसलिए इसे हम लोग एमिकेबली कैसे सैटल करें। हमने इतना कहा कि दोनों राज्यों के मुख्य मंत्रियों का जो मैनडेट हो, हमने दो-दो चिठ्ठियां भी लिखीं। हम लोग लगातार प्रयास कर रहे हैं और टेलिफोन भी कर रहे हैं कि आपस में बैठकर इस झगड़े को आगे नहीं बढ़ाना चाहिए। आपस में मिलकर दोनों का मन ठीक रहे तो बात हो सकती है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय, इस पर रेलकर्मियों का जो अनुमानित विभाजन है, उसमें पालघाट डिवीजन में अभी कर्मचारियों की संख्या 8817 रह जाती है और प्रस्तावित सेलम डिवीजन में 8245 है। कुल अनुमानित उपार्जन जो होने वाला है, वह पालघाट में 260 करोड़ रुपये है। इसमें सीमेंट फैक्टरी से लेकर जो भी इंडस्ट्रीज हैं, वे पालघाट के ज्युरिस्डिक्शन में ही हैं और 200 करोड़ रुपये का उपार्जन सेलम में हो रहा है, 260 पालघाट में बाइफर्केट होने के बाद होगा, आखिर जब बंटेगा, तभी कोई डिवीजन बनेगी[b22] ।
हम देश में कोई झगड़ा नहीं चाहते हैं।You have wrongly quoted in your Calling Attention Notice that the unnecessary delay in the creation of the Zone is going to create unrest. यह आपने गलत कहा है। रेलवे के पास ऐसा कोई प्रस्ताव ही नहीं है जिसमें डिले होता हो। आप बैठिए। मैंने कहा कि अभी गजट भी नहीं हुआ और कहीं भी कोई रयूमर लोगों को बता देते हैं। मान लीजिए कि अभी सोनिया जी और हम लोग अभी सेतवा-रामेश्वरम गये थे और जो अभी पुल के उद्घाटन में किसी ने कह दिया कि वहां पर उद्घाटन करने जा रहे हैं। हम मंत्री हैं, हमें पता ही नहीं है और तब तक वहां युद्ध चल रहा है, …( व्यवधान) इसलिए मेरी हाथ जोड़कर विनती है कि वैसे ही माहौल गर्म है।…( व्यवधान) आप पहले सुनिए। राधाकृष्णन जी, आप सुन लीजिए।…( व्यवधान) हम सुनेंगे। आप हमारे सीनियर लीडर हैं।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप चेयर को एड्रैस करके बोलिए।
…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Do not record the interruptions.
(Interruptions)* …
Not recorded
श्री लालू प्रसाद :आप बताइए कि आपने हमको क्लिअरेंस दिया था कि नहीं कि गो अहैड।…( व्यवधान) हां, बाइफर्केशन के मामले में आपकी शिकायत जायज है। इसे हम लोग बैठकर देखेंगे।…( व्यवधान) न उस दिन कोई डेट फिक्स्ड थी।…( व्यवधान) न उद्घाटन की कोई डेट फिक्स्ड थी और न अभी है और जब तक सैटिल नहीं होता है, तब तक नहीं होगा।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है, हो गया। No more reply.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The Railway Minister has said that no date has been fixed.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : I am going to request the Prime Minister of the nation, प्रधान मंत्री जी, आप दोनों राज्यों के मुख्य मंत्रियों को बुला लीजिए और हमें भी बुला लीजिए और इसमें भी जो दोनों तरफ से सीनियर्स हैं, उनको बुलाकर इसे क्लिअरेंस करिए।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है।
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Do not record even a single word of anybody, except what Dr. Jatiya is saying.
(Interruptions) *…
MR. SPEAKER: This is too much. The Minister is extremely fair. He has appealed to everybody in the House and he said that he is going to request the Prime Minister of the country to call the Chief Ministers and then it will be decided. No date has been fixed yet. On the basis of imaginary dates, you are raising this. Dr. Manoj, please go back to your seat. Nothing will be allowed, and only Dr. Jatiya’s submission will go on record. It is very, very unfortunate that when I am trying my best to accommodate everybody, you are creating trouble.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: When not one word is being recorded, why are you shouting?
MR. SPEAKER: Item No. 13, Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi.
* Not recorded
12.42 hrs.