Further Discussion On Resolution Regarding Reservation Of One Third … on 25 August, 2005

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Lok Sabha Debates
Further Discussion On Resolution Regarding Reservation Of One Third … on 25 August, 2005

Title : Further discussion on Resolution regarding reservation of one third of seats for women in all the state Legislatures and Parliament moved by Shri C. K. Chandrappan on the 6th May, 2005.

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MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, we will take up Item No.42, the Resolution moved by Shri C.K. Chandrappan. The time allotted was four hours, and we have already taken three hours. The time left with us is only 59 minutes.

Now, I request Prof. Rasa Singh Rawat to continue. He is not present.

Shrimati C.S. Sujatha – Not present.

Shrimati Tejaswini Seeramesh – Not present.

SHRI K.S. RAO Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am very happy to support the Resolution introduced by Shri C.K. Chandrappan. Basically he is from Kerala. Obviously, unlike many in other parts of the country, he is more in support of providing reservation for women. Though I do not belong to Kerala, I very much appreciate this Bill because it is coming in support of reservation for women from a male Member. It is not to gain any political advantage but by conviction, I am of the opinion that we must provide reservation for women as was suggested by him.

            The reason is that in the initial days, the role of men is defined as that they are meant for earning livelihood for the family. This is because in those days there was no science and technology. Only physical strength was the criteria. Physical strength was required in those days to go to forest, hunt animals, get food and all that. Similarly physical strength is required to secure the family by fighting with the enemies and all that. Naturally, over a period of time it has become a man-oriented society. Many others have taken advantage and given shape to woman that she is only meant for procreation and to look after the needs of the house only. Certainly, she should not come out of the house and should not be on par with men. This opinion went on for  thousands   of   years. It  has  gone  into  the blood   of  the people,  society and all that. A common impression has set in the society that men are meant for all these external works and women are meant for being in the house only[m27] . They are only meant to look after the children, rear the children, and for cooking and doing domestic works. As time passed, and with the improvement in communication, science and technology, there is a lot of change. In my grandfather’s time, no woman used to come out of the house. Woman also never used to feel that it is bad. The society also never used to feel that it is bad. Now, an awakening and awareness has come. Communication has gone up. The thoughts of women have changed. Women in those days were not educated. Even a few rich and well-placed families did not allow their girl children to go out, and learn. The teachers used to come to their houses and teach them.  That means, they were prevented from going out of the houses. Gradually, changes have occurred.  Now, the society has felt the need to educate the women also. They have permitted them.

            Now, it is an accepted fact that if women were to be educated in the houses, the children would have an advantage for having better education, better understanding in the society, and the family will come up very well in the society. So, to an extent, it has been accepted. Now, almost the situation has come that both girls and boys are equal in numbers in the schools, and to our surprise, the performance of girls has found to be much superior than boys in education. In many occasions, it may be because of their concentration in education, and their discipline or determination to prove that they are more capable than men. All these have led to prove their capacity. That means, it has been proved that given an opportunity, a woman can perform much better than a man in any field of life, including fighting. By body constitution, any one of us is prone to think that it is made in a way that the women are weak in their physiques, and the men are more strong and confident.  It may be so. With today’s improvement in science and technology – hon. Minister is also sitting here – it is not fighting with hands but fighting with weapons. Women have also demonstrated their strength, and have proved that they are much superiors to men, They also learn ‘Karate’. Today, you cannot distinguish, and say that woman is a weaker sex.  She is on par with man.

            The other thing is that whether it is technology, strength or any other field, they are proving their superiority. Now, what is lacking is their presence in Legislature and Parliament. We have made reservation for SCs and STs in the Constitution. Our Constitution makers had realized that keeping in view the backwardness – economical, educational and social – reservations are given to SCs and STs, otherwise they could not compete in open competitions. There must be an opportunity given to them at least for some years so that they will also get their strength, confidence, and everything to compete with the advanced communities. They are given the opportunity.

Now, it is the turn of the women. You cannot say that without giving an opportunity to a woman to come into the Legislature freely, and make her popular in the society to win an election, overnight if you bring her into an election she may be able to win election. It is because she has not become popular in the society. Already enough men are there who are very popular.  If the contest were between men and women – not in every place – men will take advantage. Naturally, we have to make some reservations by following the same philosophy as we have done for SCs, STs, and for others at least for some years. I do not say that reservation must be for ever, but we must provide her an opportunity to acquire skill, competence, knowledge, courage, conviction, etc. so that she is no less compared to man; even in political life, making legislation, execution, implementation, and judiciary, she must be given opportunities[t28] .

            On [e29] the same analogy as what we have given to the depressed classes, we should give reservation to women as well.

            Today, women belong to the oppressed classes in the society. The country got Independence in 1947 but not our women. Women have to get independence. Every party says that it is in favour of 33 per cent reservation for women but when

it comes to brass-tacks nothing is coming out. It is becoming a shame. Whom do the women have to believe? Which party do they have to believe? When it comes to passing the legislation, everybody drags out.

            I am of the opinion that there could be a consensus. The discussions could be held outside the Legislature as to the manner in which it could be done. All of them could come to a common understanding over the manner in which we could give them reservation. If there is disagreement between the parties over providing 33 per cent reservation, let them start with some smaller percentage. Today, we have got about eight to ten per cent women in the Legislatures. So, let them start with 20 per cent or 25 per cent and later move to 33 per cent and then to 50 per cent. Women comprise about 50 per cent of the population and they cannot be deprived of seats. It is not our exclusive privilege to deprive them and have seats in Legislatures. I want people like Shri Kapil Sibal, who is an eminent lawyer, to think and come out with alternative methods to bring out a legislation or to bring about an understanding among the various parties so that we could make a beginning instead of prolonging giving reservation forever.

            Today, if we are talking of providing reservation for women, the credit goes to Shri Rajiv Gandhi. A young man of 40 years, when he became the Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi was always thinking of bringing the youth into the Legislatures in larger numbers. Similarly, he wanted to bring women also to the Legislatures in larger numbers. The encouragement he gave to youth and women is unforgettable. During his tenure, the amendment to the Constitution was taken up whereby women were given 33 per cent reservation in panchayats and municipalities. So, a beginning has been made and it has to be followed now.

            Today, Shrimati Sonia Gandhi, the Leader of the UPA is very particular that legislation must be passed during the tenure of this Lok Sabha for providing reservation for women in our Legislatures. She wants that all the parties, with a broader mind and with some understanding of the changing scenario, must come together and find a way to pass this legislation without thinking that there would be reservation for ever. This is just a beginning. We would give reservation now and later, we could do away with it when they are empowered to come on par with men in the Legislatures.

 

श्री चंद्रकांत खैरे उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, माननीय सदस्य श्री चन्द्रप्पन जी द्वारा प्रस्तुत विधेयक पर हम लोग चर्चा कर रहे हैं। महिलाओं के आरक्षण के पक्ष में हमारी शिवसेना पार्टी भी है। मातृ शक्ति को तो बढ़ना ही चाहिए और हर जगह उनको स्थान मिलना चाहिए। हमारी पार्टी का कहना है कि आरक्षण दिया जाए, लेकिन किस तरह से आरक्षण देना चाहिए।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से बताना चाहूंगा कि एनडीए की सरकार में महिलाओं को लोक सभा और विधान सभाओं में आरक्षण देने की कोशिश चल रही थी, लेकिन नेताओं तथा राजनीतिक दलों में एकमत न होने के कारण इसे मूर्त रूप न दिया जा सका। मेरा तो यही कहना है कि महिलाओं को लोक सभा और विधान सभाओं में ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण दिया जाए। यह आरक्षण चुनाव क्षेत्र के तहत नहीं होना चाहिए। जो भी मान्यता प्राप्त राजनीतिक दल हैं, उन्हें अपनी-अपनी पार्टी के माध्यम से जितने भी उम्मीदवार खड़े करने हैं, उनमें से ३३ प्रतिशत महिला उम्मीदवारों को टिकट दिया जाए। चुनाव आयोग ने भी यह सुझाव दिया था कि आपकी लिस्ट में जितने उम्मीदवार हैं, उनमें से ३३ प्रतिशत महिलाओं का आरक्षण होना चाहिए[MSOffice30] । हम भी उसी पक्ष में हैं, क्योंकि अगर किसी कौन्सटीटूऐंसी का कार्यकर्ता अच्छा काम करता है, लेकिनदुर्भाग्यवश वह सीट महिला के लिए हुई, तो फिर कोई कार्यकर्ता जबरदस्ती अपनी पत्नी या किसी रिश्तेदार को खड़ा करेगा। इसमें ऐसे भी चांसेज होते हैं कि जिसे खड़ा किया जा रहा है, उसे कुछ समझ नहीं होती। ऐसे कई उदाहरण स्थानीय निकाय, महानगरपालिका, नगर पालिका, नगर परिषद और जिला पंचायत आदि में देखने को मिलते हैं। हमारे यहां अगर कोई महिला सभापति बन जाती है तब भी उसका पति ही कार्य करता है। महिलाओं को बोलने का अवसर नहीं मिलता। राजनीति में कई अच्छी महिलाएं होती हैं, जैसे इंदिरा जी थीं, सरोजिनी नायडू थीं और महाराष्ट्र में मृणाल गोरे थीं। अभी भी हमारे पास कई अच्छी महिला कार्यकर्ता हैं। लेकिन अगर उनके क्षेत्र की सीट पुरुषों के लिए हो, तो उनका चांस खत्म हो जाता है।

माननीय बाला साहब ठाकरे जी ने यही कहा था और एनडीए सरकार के समय हमने अपनी यही भूमिका रखी थी। बाबा आम्टे बहुत बड़े समाज सुधारक हैं, जो गड़चिरौली में सभी कुष्ठ रोगियों की मदद करते हैं और उनके साथ उनकी पत्नी साधना ताई भी कार्य करती हैं। मान लें साधना ताई को गड़चिरौली से चुनाव के लिए खड़े करना चाहते हैं, लेकिन उनका क्षेत्र महिलाओं के लिए आरक्षित नहीं होगा, तो उनका चांस खत्म हो जाएगा। दूसरे कार्यकर्ता कहेंगे कि उनका यहां रिजर्वेशन नहीं है, इसीलिए हमें चांस देना चाहिए। उस समय पार्टी भी यही सोचेगी कि साधना ताई कुष्ठ रोगियों की सेवा करती हैं, आदिवासी लोगों के लिए काम करती हैं, ये चुनकर आ सकती हैं, लेकिन वहां उनके लिए रिजर्वेशन नहीं है।

कल हमने यूपीए सरकार को भी यही कहा था कि शिवसेना पार्टी महिलाओं को ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण देने के पक्ष में है, लेकिन चुनाव क्षेत्र से नहीं। आप चुनाव क्षेत्र छोड़कर पार्टियों को दें। मान लें हमारी पार्टी पूरे देश में सौ सीटें लाना चाहती है, तो उनमें ३३ प्रतिशत महिलाएं होंगी। इस समय शिवसेना के १२ सांसद हैं, जिनमें से २ महिलाएं हैं जो बहुत अच्छा काम कर रही हैं। खुदा-न-खास्ता अगर रिजर्वेशन हो गया…( व्यवधान)   हम तैयार हैं। उनका कार्य अच्छा होने के बावजूद भी अगर माननीय बाला साहब ठाकरे कहें कि इनको वापिस करना है, तो ऑटोमैटिकली महिलाओं की संख्या उसमें बढ़ जाती है। अभी हमारे यहां महापालिका का जो चुनाव हुआ, उसमें ३३ प्रतिशत महिला आरक्षण का कोटा बराबर पूरा हुआ जिसमें एससी, एसटी और ओबीसी सबका रिजर्वेशन था। शिवसेना और बीजेपी का गठबंधन है। हमने चार महिलाएं खड़ी कीं – दो शिवसेना की तरफ से और दो बीजेपी की तरफ से। वे सभी चुनकर आ गईं।

मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि हमें मातृ शक्ति का सम्मान करना ही चाहिए, लेकिन ऐसा कानून नहीं होना चाहिए कि किसी भी चुनाव क्षेत्र पर सीट आरक्षित कर दी जाए। आरक्षण पार्टियों पर होना चाहिए। उनके लिए कम्पलसरी करना चाहिए कि आप जितनी सीटों से चुनाव लड़ेंगे, उनमें ३३ प्रतिशत महिलाओं को खड़ा करेंगे। इस तरह का कानून बनाना चाहिए ताकि उसमें सभी महिलाओं को स्थान मिले।…( व्यवधान)  जो महिलाएं अच्छा कार्य करती हैं, वे इनमें काम कर सकेंगी।…( व्यवधान)   राबड़ी देवी जी बिहार की मुख्य मंत्री रही हैं।…( व्यवधान)   ऐसा और जगह भी हो सकता है।…( व्यवधान) 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Chandrakant Khaire, please address to the Chair and not to anybody else.

… (Interruptions[R31] )

 

श्री चंद्रकांत खैरे : अभी भी अपने देश में महिला मुख्यमंत्री हैं। क्या वे आरक्षित सीट में से चुनकर आई हैं ?  वहां आरक्षण नहीं है लेकिन वे फिर भी काम कर रही हैं। श्रीमती शीला दीक्षित दूसरी बार मुख्यमंत्री बनी हैं। इसी तरह सुश्री मायावती और राबड़ी देवी जी भी मुख्यमंत्री थीं। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि क्या ये महिलाएं काम नहीं कर रही हैं ?  मेरा कहना है क स्ट्रेटअवे पार्टियों के ऊपर ३३ परसेंट आरक्षण का रूल बनाया जाये और उसी माध्यम से बिल पास किया जाये। उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मेरा और मेरी पार्टी का जो मत है, उसे मैंने यहां रखा है।

 

SHRIMATI C.S. SUJATHA Thank you Mr. Deputy-Speaker. I am participating in this discussion with pain and disappointment. Even after prolonged, protracted and marathon discussions, the issue again stands at square one. Really speaking, it is a matter of shame. Sir, the women of this country are not asking for any special favour. It is their legitimate and democratic right that they are demanding.

            A collective wisdom of our nationhood utterly failed in arriving at a consensus and firm decision by virtue of national legislation in this regard till date. Voluminous explanations are being extended by various parties from their own perspectives day by day. The reality is that it is a genuine and legitimate right and privilege which has to be made available to the women of this country who constitute 50 per cent or more of the population. Hence, I am proud of my Party, CPI(M), which from the initial stage onwards and consistently stood and fought for this fundamental requirement of our body politic along with other Left Parties. Still, our desire is to get the original Bill passed. The enactment providing 33 per cent reservation within the existing number is the ideal thing. In the Legislative Assemblies also, the same can be extended within the existing number.

            There are arguments that women cannot handle the responsibilities of administration and legislation. But our experience clearly shows that today’s women in the country are quite able to handle any job with efficiency. In the political sphere also they have a proven record. Our experiment of providing 33 per cent reservation for women in the Panchayati Raj institutions turned out to be positive. Women could prove that they are not behind their male counterparts in such matters. A majority of the Panchayati Raj institutions with women at the helm of affairs, are working effectively.

            In Kerala the percentage of women in Panchayat Raj institutions is more than 33 per cent. Their role in providing leadership in the developmental projects in the villages are worth mentioning. Women in this field are found to be more effective and acceptable as they are more sensitive to issues related to the local people and the poor.

            I myself worked in the capacity of President of District Panchayat of Alappuzha in Kerala for more than eight years. I can proudly claim that no developmental work suffered in the district because of my gender. In fact, my Panchayat was awarded the Best District Panchayat Award in the country considering the overall performance. I cite this here to say that given an opportunity, we women can discharge any responsibility as effectively as our male counterparts.

            The debate on the issue of reservation for women is continuing since the emergence of the Bill in the year 1996. It is almost a decade now that we could not reach a consensus on the issue[krr32] .

            This issue has been subjected to endless discussions, without much purpose. Again, it is a matter that this issue is being discussed in the male-dominated committees and maybe, that is the reason for this issue not getting the needed seriousness. We must show the political will. The women were expecting the introduction of the Bill in this very Session. It is quite disappointing that it has not happened. This, again, cannot go on like this. We must fix a timeframe for passing of the Bill at least in the next Winter Session, in this year itself.

            I request the Government to bring a legislation in this regard without any further delay.

 

श्री लालमणि प्रसाद उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं महिला आरक्षण के संकल्प के समर्थन में बोलने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं और बहुजन समाज पार्टी चाहती है कि महिलाओं का आरक्षण ३३ प्रतिशत हो लेकिन संविधान में जो अनुसूचित जातियों का आरक्षण है, उसमें ३३ प्रतिशत महिलाओं का आरक्षण हो सकता है लेकिन पिछड़े वर्ग और अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय की महिलाओं के आरक्षण के लिए मैं चाहता हूं, हमारी पार्टी चाहती है कि अलग से बिल लाकर उनको भी आरक्षण दिया जाए। इस संबंध में मेरा आपके माध्यम से, इस सरकार से अनुरोध है कि आज तमाम बिन्दुओं पर आम सहमति नहीं बन पा रही है। एक सवाल और भी आया था कि राज्य सभा में औऱ विधान परिषद में भी महिलाओं का आरक्षण होना चाहिए। इस संबंध में मेरा व्यक्तिगत सुझाव है कि पूरे देश में सीटें बढ़नी चाहिए। इस बारे में लोक सभा, राज्यसभा, विधान सभा औऱ विधान परिषद में भी एक सवाल आएगा। सरकार के सामने यह बहुत ही अहम मुद्दा है। इस संबंध में मेरा व्यक्तिगत सुझाव है कि लोक सभा और राज्य सभा मिलाकर केवल एक लोक सभा रखी जाए तथा विधान सभा और विधान परिषद् में विधान सभा रखी जाए। पूरे देश में लोक सभा के सदस्यों की संख्या लगभग एक हजार कर दी जाए। उसी तरह से पचास राज्यों में लगभग बराबर जनसंख्या और बराबर क्षेत्रफल के अनुपात में पूरे देश को लगभग पचास राज्यों में बांटा जाए। यहां पर जो परेशानी आ रही है, इस संबंध में मेरा अनुरोध है कि जो मत जिस पार्टी को मिलते हैं, समानुपातिक नौमिनेट पार्टी की तरफ से सदस्य नौमिनेट किये जाएं। यह मेरा अलग से हटकर विचार है। किस पार्टी को कितने मत मिल रहे हैं और लोक सभा तथा विधान सभा के सदस्यों की संख्या में जितने मत प्राप्त होते हैं, जितने वोट पाते हैं, उसके हिसाब से कितनी उनकी संख्या नौमिनेट होनी चाहिए, उसमें ३३ प्रतिशत महिलाओं के लिए S.C., B.C  तथा अल्पसंख्यक का आरक्षण करना चाहिए, फिर उसमें कोई समस्या नहीं आएगी। यह मेरा आपके माध्यम से सुझाव है कि इस तरह से चाहे विधान सभा हो या लोक सभा का मामला हो, हर मामले का समाधान हो सकता है। जिला पंचायत से लेकर ग्राम पंचायत में भी इस संबंध में मैं अपना व्यक्तिगत सुझाव रख रहा हूं। आरक्षण का समाधान हो सकता है, मैं चाहूंगा कि सरकार इस पर भी गंभीरता पूर्वक विचार करे।

अंत में, मैं पुन: इस महिला आरक्षण के संकल्प का समर्थन करता हूं और अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

१४३४ बजे

श्री तूफानी सरोज उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं श्री सी.के.चन्द्रप्पन द्वारा लाये गये महिला आरक्षण के बारे में जो संकल्प पेश किया गया है, उस स्वरूप का हम समर्थन नहीं करते हैंै, विरोध करते हैं। महिला आरक्षण हो, इसका हमारा विरोध नहीं है।[R33]  लेकिन किस रूप में होगा, सबसे पहले उसका स्वरूप चेन्ज होना चाहिए। दलितों, अल्पसंख्यकों और पिछड़ों को उसमें भागीदारी मिलनी चाहिए, उसके बाद ही यह आरक्षण बिल सदन में लाया जाए।उत्तर प्रदेश में ग्राम पंचायतों में महिलाओं को आरक्षण प्रदान किया गया है लेकिन वहां आज भी महिलाएं काम करने में सक्षम नहीं हैं, वे काम नहीं कर पाती हैं। उनके सारे काम उनके पति करते हैं। पूरे देश और विश्व में कही संसद में महिलाओं के आरक्षण की व्यवस्था नहीं है, सिर्फ दक्षिण अफ्रीका में १० प्रतिशत आरक्षण की व्यवस्था है।

कभी-कभी यहां चर्चा होती है कि महिलाओं को आरक्षण दिया जाए, इसके लिए सीटें बढ़ा दी जाएं, सदन की संख्या बढ़ा दी जाए। मैं कहना चाहता हूँ कि ऐसा करके काम करना कठिन हो जाएगा। आज उत्तर प्रदेश में जितने विधायक हैं, सदन में विधायकों के बैठने के उतने ही स्थान है। अगर वहां सीटें बढ़ा दी जाएंगी तो इसके लिए राजस्व पर बहुत बड़ाबोझ पड़ेगा, सदन में सीटें बढ़ानी पड़ेंगी और इसके लिए तोड़-फोड़ करनी पड़ेगी। इसी तरह अगर लोकसभा में सीटें बढ़ाई जाती हैं तो वही दिक्कतें आएंगी।इन सब तमाम दिक्कतों को देखते हुए, ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण का यह जो संकल्प पेश किया गया है, वह असंभव है। सभी पार्टियों के लिए १० प्रतिशत आरक्षण की व्यवस्था कर दी जाए जिसमें सभी पार्टियां स्वतंत्र रूप से अपने-अपने आरक्षण लागू करें और उसमें भी दलितों, पिछड़े लोगों और अल्पसंख्यक – सभी के लिए प्रावधान किया जाए।

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bikram Keshari Deo. Mr. Deo, please be very brief.

 

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO Thank you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir. This Resolution, which has been moved by Shri C. K. Chandrappan, is a welcome measure. It is a debatable issue.

Today, the population in our country really constitutes nearly 50 per cent of women. If we study the economic indicators for the upliftment of women and for the empowerment of women, then it is quite alarming and quite shocking. Let us take the example of literacy. The illiteracy rate is the highest among women in our country. The health hazards that they have to face are great in number. The infant mortality rate is the highest in the country in Orissa and in the world India is one of the highest.

            As regards violation of women’s rights, it is too much in the country. Yesterday, a Bill was also passed with regard to this issue, namely, Protection of Women from Domestic Violence. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not disturb the hon. Member. Please keep quiet in the House.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO : If we take all these human problems, which are usually relevant to women folks, then it is high time that we started thinking about having more women representation in this august House and in the respective Assemblies. This would allow them to express their problems in a better way, and it could solve the problems to a certain extent. Therefore, it is a welcome measure.

            I remember that in my State of Orissa, the late Shri Biju Patnaik — during his time — initiated empowerment of women in the Panchayati Raj system as per the guidelines in the 73rd Amendment. He, for the first time, gave women reservation in the three-tier Panchayati Raj system, and it has given results. Today, our non-Congress Government — which is functioning in Orissa — has started ‘Mission Shakti’. A lot of women welfare programmes are going on, and others are on the anvil.

But if you closely scrutinise the Standing Committees’ Reports, the Estimates Committee’s Reports, etc., then you will find that the achievements in the women welfare schemes are abysmal or very low. Therefore, women should come to the august House to fight for their rights. It would allow them to express their feelings, and do some justice to themselves[ak34] .

As you know, everybody is saying that women are being given all facilities for education. But I am sorry to state that in my district, Kalahandi — I have written three or four letters and I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Social Justice Empowerment is aware of it — funds from Balika Samriddi Yojana, which is a small amount of stipend which is given to encourage girl education, have not reached for the last two years. As the Minister is sitting here, I hope she will take note of it.

THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL JUSTICE & EMPOWERMENT           (SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR): I would like to inform the hon. Member that it actually comes under the HRD Ministry.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO : I know that it comes under HRD Ministry. Since you are her Cabinet Colleague and you are a woman, kindly convey the sentiments of the House, the sentiments of myself and the sentiments of the people of my district.

            Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, if you see, today ICDS programmes are not all being implemented properly. Posts are lying vacant. Those women who are serving for an honorarium, I must give credit to them that in far-flung areas and in tribal pockets, they are giving honorary service for the betterment of the children of the country. If  1/3 reservation in Parliament and Assemblies could be made for them, it will be good, but it should be done in a phased manner. It is because when we introduced women’s reservation in Orissa, during that time, it was seen that in the first year there were some difficulties. Things started improving afterwards. You will be surprised to see that in Kalahandi district, which is under the KBK programme, where the Mission Plan is being implemented, where self-help groups have been created, they are all successful today. I am hundred per cent sure that when a country could be led by Mrs. Gandhi, who was a woman and who led the country to the best of her capability, when there were ladies like Rani Laxmi Bai of Jhansi, who could revolt against the East India Company, and Rani Durgavati, who led the rebellion throughout the country, why can women not lead this country or why can women not lead from the front?

            Mr. Chandrappan will understand that some of the countries in the world, which have given reservations, have done it in a phased manner. So, let us start with a modest beginning of 10 per cent reservation. As the Election Commission said, thirty-three per cent reservation should be given by the parties concerned. Charity should begin from home instead of doing it just for meeting political ends. You want to politicise Women’s Reservation Bill. Do not try to politicise. Let us elicit public opinion. Please send it to elicit the opinion of the public in the country, the opinion of the voters and the opinion of the masses of this country. Let us see what sort of opinion comes from other places. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: If anybody speaks without my permission, that should not be recorded. Mr. Sunil Khan’s remarks should not be recorded.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO : I say that charity begins at home. I think, the Election Commission has rightly thought that if we want to give reservations from our heart, and if we want women to come forward, we should include it in our political manifestoes, and while we are distributing tickets, we should give preference to women to fight the elections.

            My view is that it should be done in a phased manner and it should not be done abruptly. We should see that best women get elected to this House.

* Not Recorded

 

 

 

SHRIMATI  D. PURANDESWARI Thank you, Sir. I am sorry I was not there when you called me earlier. I apologise once again.

            I thank you for giving me this opportunity to voice myself here today on a subject which is very near and dear to us, especially women. I would also like to voice my appreciation to the sensitivity displayed by Shri Chandrappanji in bringing the Resolution into the House today. Since it has been debated for quite some time, I would definitely like to appreciate him.

            I would not want to delve into the technicalities, merits and demerits of the Bill because the Bill has not yet been tabled in its actual form. I would just restrict myself to the Resolution, that is, that the Central Government should bring forward a suitable legislation to reserve at least one third of the seats for women in all the State legislatures and both Houses of Parliament. So, I would just like to speak about the necessity why we need to introduce a Bill in the House today. I would also like to make it very clear initially that I intend to take part in this discussion not as a reaction to the male chauvinism that has been displayed or has been predominantly dominating our present social structure. I would like to draw focussed attention to the gender discrimination which our Indian women have been subjected to.

            Widespread discrimination against women has been very inherent. It has been structural and it has been reflected in the persistent under-representation of women in our Parliament, Legislative Assemblies and even in high profile workplaces.  But, if you go back to our traditions, traditionally and culturally our Indian religion and philosophy has always assigned women a high place of honour and divinity. 

It was always the Mother Divine whom we prayed to; Goddess Laxmi whom we prayed to when we needed wealth; Goddess Saraswati whom we turned to when we needed to be blessed with knowledge; and Goddess Kali whom we always tried to appease when we wanted to be blessed with valour. Similarly, nature also, which gave us in plenty and in bountiful, is always called mother nature and not father nature. The child also learnt his first communication skills in his mother language and not father language. So, this is the importance that the woman was always given. 

Even when we go back and look into our ancient scriptures, it was always a matriarchal form of society that existed in the country. In some parts of our country, they continue with the matriarchal form of society in the present day also. In our ancient scriptures, women have always been assigned high places of pride and honour. For example, Kunti, Maitreyi, Gargi, Savitri, Sita, etc., have all been assigned a very high place of honour and dignity. So, it goes beyond all pale of doubt that women would have always been revered and worshipped all along in our history.

Even if we look at our modern day religious leaders like Ramakrishna Paramahansa, or Swami Vivekananda for that matter; our leaders like Mahatma Gandhi; or even men of worth like Bharati, Rabindranath Tagore; or even social reformers like Raja Rammohan Roy, Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar; they have all sung the saga of motherly qualities of divinity and love in women. So, it goes beyond all doubt that women were always honoured, they were always worshipped, and I hope they would be continued to be honoured in the present day also.

However, the present day situation has undergone a great metamorphism and there is a sea change in the position of our women today. During the days of Independence we all know that men and women have fought shoulder to shoulder, as Shri Chandrappan had rightly said the other day in his initial speech. Men and women have fought shoulder to shoulder and this political emancipation was expected to usher in many reforms on the social front also.  But, unfortunately, our social reforms have fallen short of expectations. There is a large gap between concept and reality today, and while women have been relegated to positions that are very very inferior, they have been subjected to subordination also.

The Economic Survey, which is the latest and authentic official version of women’s position in our modern day society, says:

“As per the 2001 census, women constituted 48 per cent of the total population of the country. Women suffer many disadvantages as compared to men in the areas of education, labour participation, wages and earning. ”

 

This is in spite of us having a Constitution which is the supreme law of the land, which prohibits gender discrimination and has also specified measures wherein women should be socially and economically empowered[KMR35] .

            Sir, the provisions of Articles 14, 15, 16(2), 21, 23, 39(a), 39(d) and 39(e) all uniformly speak of equal treatment that should be meted out to both men and women.  It also makes the message very loud and clear that the States should provide measures wherein both the sexes, men and women, should have equal access to the finer graces of human civilization.  Despite these statutory measures being in place, despite umpteen judicial interventions, the ground realities are absolutely and totally different.  They are not what we want them to be.  They are totally different. 

            A study conducted by an international organisation has revealed that women contribute 50 per cent of the adult population and contribute about one-third to the total labour force;  They work for two-thirds of the total number of working hours. They receive one-tenth of the world income and yet they  possess less than one per cent of the world property.  Each one of us should clearly understand that the reservation that is going to be given to women today is not a charity but a recognition of their contribution to the economy and the social development. Pessimists believe that within the patriarchal gender relations which confine and constrain a woman, a woman will end up becoming a puppet in the political interest and the power play of a man. They further feel that by giving reservation to women, it would widen fissures which exist in already fragmented society.  But, Sir, we need to understand that by ensuring women direct access to political power, she would be given a status in society, which would change her position in the society. By gaining the status in society, by accessing decision making status, the position of women in the house would also be changed for the better.

When the 73rd Constitution amendment has come in, there was a lot of debate and speculation and there were apprehensions but the 73rd and 74th amendments have brought in a definite impact on the participation of women in Panchayati Raj institutions and local bodies in terms of absolute numbers.  In some places, where these women had contested the Panchayati Raj institutions and local bodies, they have even exceeded 33 per cent which they were required to get.  So women in spite of coming out, they could be able to ably handle both their professional and home fronts very well. 

When we look at the rural areas, it is the  family and the social norms, lack of education and their dedication to the household chores and their commitment to the household chores that has actually prevented these women from coming out.  By giving them an opportunity like this, we are giving them a chance to come out, to prove themselves. Not only that we are also throwing young generation into the political mainstream, which has always been the stronghold of men and a few influential women.

 Even in electoral  terms, when we look at the total number of women who had contested elections since 1984, 32.43 per cent  women who have won come from recognised parties. When we look at men, their track record has only been 26.50 per cent.  This means,  voters do not discriminate against women.  It is the people who have to give them the seats, who are actually discriminating against women.  Therefore gender-based discrimination is very regrettable and it also excludes the entire unpacked gene pool from coming into the mainstream. I hope, each one of us understand that.

Women  in India have been able to break the gender-based barrier in many professions. Women have opened the doors to top executive jobs, entered civil services.  They are into police service, into journalism and so many other areas which were earlier considered  bastions of men.  Therefore, women must not and should not be kept away from politics today.  Today, even after 50 years of our Constitution have recognised that the equality of women, participation in politics on an equal footing with men seems a very distant dream. Therefore,  not only critics but we, women, feel that 33 per cent reservation for women must be made mandatory and must be brought into the House for us to come into the House. I once again thank you, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Now, Shri Brahmananda Panda.

श्री जुएल ओराम (सुन्दरगढ़) : मेरा रिजॉल्युशन भी है, क्या टाइम एक्सटेंड करेंगे?

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  आपका रिजॉल्यूशन भी आएगा।

SHRI BRAHMANANDA PANDA Sir, I may kindly be permitted to speak from this place.  Thank you.

            Hon. Deputy-speaker, Sir, I extend my hearty thanks for giving me an opportunity to participate on the discussion on the Resolution regarding Reservation of one third of seats for women in all the State Legislatures and Parliament, moved by my hon. friend, Shri C.K. Chandrappan.

            As we all are aware, all through, women have been given the highest honour in our civilisation.  They have become source of inspiration in our social life.   Therefore, it is high time that they should come to the political platform now.  I rise to support this Resolution but with certain corrections in the Representation of People Act.

14.56 hrs.

                                    (Shri Balasaheb Vikhe Patil in the Chair)

            I would like to remind you, Sir, that our great late lamented leader Biju Patnaik had always been giving emphasis on the empowerment of women, as a result of which  at panchayat level and also in the urban bodies, women have been given the highest preferences.

            Sir, here, let me say that my wife is also heading the Orissa State Women Commission.  It is always to be seen how women are efficient to carry the message of the people.  That is most important.  I would like to remind you, Sir, that Mrs. Nandini Satpathy was our Chief Minister. She is a very dynamic lady.  Her contribution to the overall development of the State of Orissa has been very remarkable. 

            So, in any walk of life, if women actually exhibit their talent, there is no doubt that the people will accept them, appreciate them.  Now, it is to be examined that unless the Representation of People Act is corrected or amended,  whether this Resolution can come to play its real role.  I would like to urge that the political mileage or any such thing should not be the purpose, so far as this Resolution regarding empowerment of women is concerned.

            Once again, I would like to support this Bill and I would like to appeal that since the Constitution has provided equal rights to the women, and women have been given equal privileges in all walks of life, it is high time that they should be given preference, so far as the political platform is concerned.

            With these few words, I conclude my speech.  Thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to speak on this occasion.

 

 

SHRIMATI P. SATHEEDEVI Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am really glad to say a few words in support of the Private Member’s Resolution on the Reservation of one third of seats for women in all the State Legislatures and Parliament moved by our hon. Member,  Shri C.K. Chandrappan.

            Sir, we are discussing the issue of women’s reservation while we are almost going to complete the sixth decade of our Independence.  We are ruled by the Constitution in which the principle of gender equality is enshrined in its preamble, Fundamental Rights, Fundamental Duties and Directive Principles within the framework of a democratic polity laws.  Development policies, plans and programmes have been aimed at women’s advancement in different spheres.

            Sir, every hon. Member, who has spoken here, admits that there exists a wide gap between the enunciated goals   in the Constitution and the ground reality of the status of women in India[k36] .

15.00 hrs. [pkp37] 

Women’s equality in power sharing and active participation in decision-making, including political decision-making at all levels and in all processes, should be ensured.  For the achievement of this goal, empowerment of women is essential. 

Now, Sir, when we are in the 59th year of Independence and in the 14th Lok Sabha, the percentage of women representatives is only 8.34. What is the situation in various States?  Between 2002-04, there have been elections to 20 State Assemblies with a total number of 2432 seats. There were only 1525 women candidates. Out of those 1525 women candidates, only 137 won in those elections.  This is just 5.7 per cent. 

            Sir, the situation at the panchayat level is now becoming much better only because of the Constitutional requirement of one-third reservation for women in panchayats. The 73rd and 74th Constitutional amendments in 1993 have brought about a definite impact on the participation of women in terms of absolute numbers in grass-root democratic institutions – I mean the local bodies.  Out of 475 Zila Parishads in the country, 158 are being chaired by women.  By ensuring women’s direct access to formal political power and resources for development, women’s social position will automatically get transformed.  By gaining status and decision-making power in the community, their position within their houses will also change for the better.  Moreover, our experience at the panchayati-raj level brings out the fact that the women are less corrupt and more responsible in executing their duties than men as they have not yet been very much contaminated by the prevailing feudal and political culture. 

            Sir, the Bill introduced in the Parliament was referred to a Joint-Parliamentary Committee of the two House. The Committee headed by Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee presented its Report on 9th December, 1996.  The Report presented by the Committee further strengthened the Bill.  The Bills introduced in the 12th and 13th Lok Sabhas failed miserably as there was no consensus of opinion even among the ruling parties.  Now also, we are facing the same situation in the 14th Lok Sabha.  Even now, the Election Commission, in an attempt to overcome the deadlock, suggested in April 2000 that all the political parties should put up a minimum of one-third seats for women. Now also, all the political parties are against the suggestion given by the Election Commission.  What will happen if these political parties follow the suggestion of the Election Commission?  Every political party will be giving them only those seats on which there is no chance for that political party to win. Naturally the number of women representatives in the State Assemblies and the Parliament will continue to be the same given the situation that is existing now.  Several political parties have rejected the suggestion given by the Election Commission by saying that other backward communities and the Scheduled Castes also should be given reservation.  Then the Government tried to have a consensus among all the political parties by proposing double-member constituencies, that is, reducing the reservation to 20 per cent and allowing a sub-quota for women from backward classes and minority communities. There was no unanimity on this[pkp38] .

MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly sit for a minute and then, you can continue.

            The time allotted for this Resolution is over. We have eight more Members to participate in this discussion. If the House agrees, the time for discussing this Resolution may be extended by an hour.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. The time is extended by an hour.

            Shrimati Satheedevi, you may continue and conclude soon.

SHRIMATI  P. SATHEEDEVI : Yes. I am concluding my speech.

            In the National Common Minimum Programme of the UPA Government, it was reiterated that the Government would take the lead to introduce the legislation for one-third reservation for women in the Lok Sabha and the State Legislatures. But the recent discussions that are going on in the last few days show that there is no likelihood of having any consensus among the political parties, who are in support of the UPA Government. This nation was born out of struggle in which women had played a prominent role and women shouldered equally with men. But the Parliament has not reflected this historical background. Women have been able to break the gender bias or barrier in many professions. Yet, their participation here still remains a dream. So, providing constitutional guarantee, this Bill has to be introduced and passed in the Winter Session of Parliament. It should be passed unanimously with all the political parties that are supporting the UPA Government, extending their support to this Bill, for which the Government has already given a promise to the general public.

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly cooperate with the Chair by taking 3-5 minutes each. One should not take more than five minutes. If one takes three minutes and concludes, then, this could be completed today itself. Every business is important.

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH : It is very unfortunate, but still we would like to respect the Chair.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Everything is important.

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH : I am having my apprehension. With due respect, I would like to tell you that whenever it comes to women’s matters, we do not even get time to speak. I would like to convey my feelings here.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Minister wants to say something.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE): The time has been extended twice for this. That is why, we want to complete this subject by today.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. You may continue now.

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH : Thank you. I would like to appreciate our Comrade Chandrappan who is always supporting women’s causes. Of course, many Comrades in the Left Party do it. It is a great opportunity to convince them and express our feelings. We need their support and rising above party lines, we need the support of everybody, to pass this Bill in this House.

            Look at the contribution made by women to this mankind and for nation building. You cannot value the contribution of the mother. Mother is everything in the family; mother is the governor. Mother does governance; mother handles finances. She knows how to deal with the subject; in the field of HRD, we can see her contribution. I do not want to blame the men-folk for that, but it is the system.

            We have done some mistakes; we have not educated our women and so, we are begging for our rights today, even though we are representing 50 per cent of our population, even though we contribute to 50 per cent of the labour force and even though we are not owning any property. It is our fault and that is why, I do not want to beg in this House for our rights. We will take up this cause by educating our women, by organising social movement further.

            Humbly, I would like to tell this House that we are only 44 women Members who got elected to this House. In spite of criminalisation of politics, in spite of the very huge expenses that are made by them, can any honest woman fight the election? I am asking this question to everyone of my brothers present here. Can any honest woman fight the election? There are talented women; there are good teachers; there are good nurses and there are good doctors who want to enter politics, but it is not possible for them to do so in the present political scenario. So, do not underestimate them.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You are one of the elected Members here! People have elected you!

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH : There is a prejudice that women will not make it. We made it in our houses; we organise the house properly. But we reached this level; do not forget it. We have that tradition. If anybody asks what are we doing, we say that we do not do anything[R39] .

Women work 24 hours a day. If a baby awakes in the midnight, mother feeds her.  Does the father in anyway show concern?  If the baby is not well, the mother shows concern?  Are you paying her for this?  Do not under-estimate the personality, the dignity of the women. She is aware of her right but she is not able to fight for it.  Unless she is economically, socially and educationally empowered,  the Indian Woman will not make it to the top. 

            People are always humiliating women.  I was hearing, a number of speeches being made in this House in support of the Bill.  Nobody dares to oppose it because everybody is aware that fifty per cent of the women will not back them in the election.  You still do not want to pass this Bill because you are afraid that once women reach to the Parliament they will not leave the political power which men folk today are enjoying.  I would like to recall the contributions made by women in our nation building.

            The political world scenario is, the IPU stressed the need for reservation of women in the Parliament.  The parliamentary nations have been raised from 26 to 176.  Since last 50 years, the representation of women in Parliament is not more than 11.6 per cent.  It indicates that in the world parliamentary nations, the least women representation is in India.  In the Scandinavian countries like Norway, Argentina, Belgium, Brazil and Korea, the women representation constitutes nearly 30 per cent whereas in India it is only 11.6 per cent. 

Our great Leader Shrimati Indira Gandhi had ruled India for 18 years as the Prime Minister.  How much did she contribute?  She took India to the world scenario by initiating NAM.  The world today appreciates India.  Do not forget the contributions made by the iron lady, Shrimati Indira Gandhi.  I would like to recall them in the House because it is a great honour for all of us to remember her services.  Today we are boosting ourselves as a nuclear power.  It is all due to her contribution to the scientific world. It was Shrimati Indira Gandhi who fought all these wars.  She took a bold decision.  RSS had appreciated Madam Gandhi’s boldness and determination.  I appreciate them because they had shown respect to the contributions made by her. 

I would say that we could safeguard our national integrity under the leadership of a woman.  Do not under-estimate women.  If given an opportunity, they can make it.  You may look at the women Chief Ministers.  They may have political differences with the administration but compared to men they are more sincere because they have humbleness. They know the real problems. They know what is poverty, hunger and illiteracy.  I would request all of you to give women a chance.  If 33 per cent reservation is denied to women, one day – I may be here or not – history will tell you who was right and who was wrong.  The future will show that they will make it to 50 per cent reservation in the House.  Humbly I would like to request everybody to cooperate with us and respect the sentiments of the Indian women.  It will be an honour to you only.  She has been serving you all these years as a mother, wife and daughter.  Contrary to this, look at how women are being discriminated.

When Shrimati Sonia Gandhi was contesting from Bellary, Karnataka, immediately the BJP had put up Sushma ji as its contestant from there.  Anybody could have contested from that seat.  Sushma ji is really a great Leader.  She could have won from any other seat but BJP wanted to create a jhagra between two women.  It wanted to defeat a woman by woman.  I feel that even the women folk in the BJP, our sisters, would have retaliated.  Even in the Congress, we do not want any woman to be defeated.  We want to see more women in this House.  We want to have more women in the ruling Party also.

MR. CHAIRMAN : We do respect ladies[R40] .

SHRI SURAVARAM SUDHAKAR REDDY Sir, I stand to support this Resolution proposed by my hon. colleague, Shri C.K. Chandrappan on the empowerment of women.  Generally, it looks that most of the political parties and the Members of Parliament are in favour of providing reservation up to 33 per cent in this highest decision and policy making body, the Parliament of India and also in the Legislatures.  But there are a few political parties which are not reconciled to this proposal. Unfortunately, they are creating the problem by saying that it should be less than 10 per cent or it should be left to the political parties to decide about a certain percentage of the reservation in allocating the seats in different constituencies.  I think it is not correct.  Why do we need this reservation now?  There are generally four types of discriminations that are going on in the world, namely, race, religion, gender and in India, it is caste also.  The gender discrimination is continuing for centuries together and Manudharma Shastra legalised this discrimination against women in India.  For centuries, this patriarchal society undermined the role of the women in the society.  They tried to suppress the women. 

Even after six decades of Independence, unfortunately, we are seeing today that not even 10 per cent of the women are able to come into Legislative Assemblies and Parliament.  The percentage of the women is something like 49.8 per cent.  Naturally, the reservation should be 50 per cent but we are accepting 33 per cent reservation because Beijing Declaration on the International Women Conference had come to the understanding that at least one-third reservation for women should be there in decision making and policy making bodies in various countries.  This is generally accepted throughout the world.

            Now some people are raising an issue that the Panchayats, Zila Parishads, etc. are not decision making bodies and that they are only decision implementing bodies.  But with the experience of leadership which the women had provided in Panchayats is really heartening.  They are very successful in leading the Panchayats.  After this experience, there is no reason why there should be any protest or any doubt as to whether the women can represent and lead. 

            I do not want to quote the role of the women in various fields but I would like to quote a few successful political leaders of the world. They played a very important role whether it was Indira Gandhi as the Prime Minister of India or Ms. Golda Meir as the head of the Israel or Mrs. Margaret Thatcher as the head of the United Kingdom or Ms. Sirimavo Bandaranaike earlier and now Ms. Chandrika Kumartunge of Sri Lanka or Ms. Eva Peron of Peru, etc.  In their respective countries they took over the responsibility of the political leadership in a situation when their countries were in turmoil and the political situation was challenging.  They led their respective countries very successfully.  There are several examples even in Latin America. Megawati Sukarnoputri of Indonesia led her country very successfully in the most turmoil situation[r41] .

            We have before us the example of Ms. Aung San Su Kyi of Myanmar who took over the leadership in her country to fight against the military dictatorship there for restoration of democracy. When women all over the world have proved their worth as leaders, be it at the lowest rung of the Panchayats, or at the highest level of leading a country, why could there not be proper representation for them in the Parliament and in the legislative bodies?

            There has been a lot of debate going on about this and almost everybody, when we debate this issue in Parliament, agrees to providing for reservation of women in Parliament and in the legislative bodes. Several discussions are taking place behind the curtains. The hon. Prime Minister is discussing this issue with the political parties of the UPA on the one hand, and also with the partners of the NDA to arrive at a consensus on passing the Bill for providing 33 per cent reservation to women in Parliament and the legislative bodies. It is a good thing. It has been one of the main promises made in the Common Minimum Programme of the UPA. But I would like to ask one thing to the leaders of the UPA as to why they are insisting on having a consensus  of all political parties on this issue. The Parliament passes several Resolutions, and takes several decisions in spite of opposition from political parties. No doubt, this is an important issue. It is good if we can arrive at a consensus on this. But if we do not get the consensus of all parties, then we should at least have the courage to translate this Bill into Act as early as possible.

            Sir, I believe, it is already too late. This House should take up this historic Bill. This House has already passed historic Bills like the Right to Information Bill, National Rural Employment Guarantee Bill during this Fourteenth Lok Sabha. This Lok Sabha should have the honour to take this decision about passing this Bill that seeks to provide for 33 per cent reservation to women in the Parliament and in the legislative bodies.

 

श्रीमती प्रतिभा सिंह महोदय, मैं आपका धन्यवाद करती हूं कि महिला सशक्तीकरण एवं विधायिका की उनकी भूमिका पर अपने विचार प्रस्तुत करने के लिए आपने मुझे मौका दिया।

सर्वप्रथम इस महत्वपूर्ण विषय में अपने विचार प्रस्तुत करने एवं अवसर प्रदान करने के लिए आपका बहुत-बहुत आभार प्रकट करती हूं। आज महिला आरक्षण के ऊपर बहुत सी महिलाओं ने और पुरुष भाईयों ने अपने विचार रखे। मुझे खुशी है कि इस पर मुझे भी अपने विचार व्यक्त करने का आपने मौका दिया। आप जानते हैं कि भारत १०० करोड़ की आबादी वाला देश है और इसमें ५० प्रतिशत महिलाएं जहां रहती हैं तो हम चाहते हैं कि महिलाओं की भी उतनी ही भागीदारी हर क्षेत्र में दी जाये। परन्तु जब हम इसकी आवाज उठाने का प्रयास करते हैं तो हमें लगता है कि महिलाओं की आवाज दबकर रह जाती है। उसे बुलन्द करने के लिए हमें आपकी, सरकार की और पार्लियामेंट के माध्यम से उस आवाज को उठाने का मौका मिले। इसके लिए हम आपका आभार प्रकट करते हैं।

यदि हम अपने प्राचीन इतिहास पर एक नजर डालें, तो हम देखेंगे कि हमारा अतीत बहुत सुनहरा रहा है। सतयुग, द्वापर, त्रेता आदि सभी युगों में महिलाओं का स्थान प्रतिष्ठित एवं पूजनीय रहा। सीता, राधा, रुक्मिणी, अहिल्या, सती अनुसुइया, रानी लक्ष्मीबाई एवं ऐसी अनेक बहादुर महिलाओं से भारत का इतिहास भरा पड़ा है, लेकिन आजादी के बाद देश में शिक्षा, स्वास्थ्य, सामाजिक प्रतिष्ठा में महिलाएं पिछड़ती गईं।

आज मैं भारत में रहने वाली महिलाओं के बारे में कुछ कहना चाहूंगी। यहां पर हम जानते हैं कि भारत के संविधान की प्रस्तावना एवं नीति निर्देशक सिद्धान्तों में महिलाओं को बराबरी का अधिकार देते हुए सभी क्षेत्रों में महिलाओं के उत्थान की बात कही गई है। [i42] 

महोदय, सरकार द्वारा महिलाओं के उत्थान के अनेक प्रयासों के बावजूद भारतीय समाज में महिलाएं पिछड़ती गईं क्योंकि भारत गांवों का देश है और ७० प्रतिशत आबादी गांवों में बसती है। गांवों में महिलाओं की शिक्षा, स्वास्थ्य एवं अन्य सुविधाओं के अभाव में उनकी स्थिति में उत्साहजनक सुधार नहीं होने के कारण सरकार की चिन्ता बढ़ती गई और इसी परिप्रेक्ष्य में सांसदों, राज्य सरकारों, एनजीओज, महिला ऑर्गेनाइजेशन्स, सामाजिक कार्यकर्ताओं, अनुसंधानकर्ताओं एवं विशेषज्ञों से विचार-विमर्श कर वर्ष १९९६ में सरकार ने महिला सशक्तीकरण की राष्ट्रीय नीति का एक प्रारूप तैयार किया।

महोदय, महिला सशक्तीकरण की राष्ट्रीय नीति के अन्तर्गत जो उद्देश्य रखे गए, उनमें सभी स्तरों पर सभी डसिज़न मेकिंग बौडीज़ में महिलाओं को समानता का अधिकार देने एवं निर्णय लेने की पूर्ण स्वतंत्रता देना शामिल है जिनमें प्राइवेट सैक्टर, पब्लिक सैक्टर्स, लेजिस्लेटिव, एक्ज़िक्यूटिव, जूडशियरी, लोकल बौडीज, कॉर्पोरेट और स्टेचूटरी बाडीज़ के साथ-साथ एडवाइज़री कमीशन, कमेटीज़, बोर्डस, ट्रस्ट्स आदि भी शामिल हैं।

महोदय, देश के उत्थान के लिए यह अत्यावश्यक है कि नारी पुरुष के साथ कंधे से कंधा मिलाकर चले और यह बराबरी सिर्फ नीचे के स्तर पर ही नहीं बल्कि हर स्तर पर और हर क्षेत्र में हो। इसी द्ृष्टिकोण को ध्यान में रखते हुए यह आवश्यक हो गया है कि जहां पंचायत, स्थानीय निकायों एवं म्युनसिपेलटीज़ में महिलाओं को आरक्षण दिया गया, वहीं अब विधान सभाओं एवं संसद में भी उन्हें प्रतनधित्व देने हेतु कम से कम ३० प्रतिशत स्थान आरक्षित किए जाएं। हालांकि कुछ लोग यह मानते हैं कि कोटा एवं परमिट प्रणाली लम्बे समय तक नहीं चल सकती है क्योंकि इसके दुष्परिणाम हो सकते हैं, लेकिन मेरा मानना है कि महिलाओं को आगे बढ़ने का मौका दिया जाना चाहिए। अगर महिलाओं को तीस प्रतिशत आरक्षण संसद और विधान सभाओं में मिलता है, तो मैं समझती हूं कि इससे महिलाओं को आगे बढ़ने का मौका मिलेगा।

महिला एवं पुरुषों की संख्या में विश्व में जो असंतुलन व्याप्त है, उसे दूर करने तथा महिलाओं को ज्यादा भागीदारी देने के लक्ष्य को प्राप्त करने हेतु यह आवश्यक पाया गया है। महिला सशक्तीकरण हेतु एक राष्ट्रीय नीति वर्ष २००१ में घोषित की गई। इस नीति में महिलाओं को प्रशासनिक क्षेत्र, राजनीतिक क्षेत्र में समानता तथा निर्णय लेने की महत्वपूर्ण शक्तियां देने की बात कही गयी है। इस नीति के अनुसार दसवीं पंचवर्षीय योजना में ऐसे आवश्यक पग उठाए गए जिनसे प्राइवेट सैक्टर, पब्लिक सैक्टर, लेजिस्लेटिव, एक्ज़िक्यूटिव, जूडशियरी, लोकल बौडीज, कॉर्पोरेट और स्टेचूटरी बौडीज़ और एडवाइज़री कमीशन, कमेटीज़, बोर्डस आदि में महिलाओं का कोटा निर्धारित करने तथा समयबद्ध कार्यक्रम के अनुसार डिसीज़न मेकिंग प्रोसेस में महिलाओं की भागीदारी बढ़ाने की बात शामिल है।

महोदय, महिलाओं की भागीदारी पंचायती राज संस्थाओं के स्तर पर बढ़ाने के साथ-साथ यह भी महसूस किया गया कि महिलाओं की भागीदारी को विधान सभाओं एवं संसद में बढ़ाने के प्रयास किए जाएं।

महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से बताना चाहती हूं कि वर्ष १९८४-८५ में देश की विधान सभाओं में १४१ महिला विधायक थीं जो वर्ष १९९३-९४ में घटकर ६२ रह गईं। इसी प्रकार केन्द्रीय मंत्रिमंडल में महिला मंत्रियों की संख्या बहुत न्यून रही है। १९८५ से २००१ के बीच केवल दो कैबिनेट और ६ स्टेट मनिस्टर महिलाएं थीं, जिनमें दो को स्वतंत्र विभाग दिया गया था। इस स्थिति से उबरने के लिए यह आवश्यक हो गया कि राजनीति में महिलाओं के आने में जो कठिनाइयां हैं, उन्हें दूर किया जाए और पुरुषों के अनुपात में महिलाओं की संख्या बढ़ाने के सभी प्रयास किए जाएं, परन्तु ऐसा करना तभी सम्भव है, जब उन्हें संसद और विधान सभाओं में एक निश्चित अनुपात में आरक्षण दिया जाए।

MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly conclude or if you have more points to mention, then you may kindly lay them on the Table  of the House.

 

श्रीमती प्रतिभा सिंह : महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से इस बात को संसद में रखना चाहूंगी कि महिलाओं को ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण मिलना चाहिए। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करती हूं।

श्री राम कृपाल यादव सभापति महोदय, मैं आपके प्रति आभार व्यक्त करता हूं कि आपने मुझे इस महत्वपूर्ण विषय पर चर्चा में भाग लेने का अवसर प्रदान किया। यह गैर-सरकारी सदस्यों का संकल्प है। श्री सी.के. चन्द्रप्पन साहब ने इसे प्रस्तुत किया है। इसमें कहा गया है कि राज्य विधान मंडल और संसद में महिलाओं को ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण दिया जाए। राष्ट्रीय जनता दल बेसिक रूप से इसके पक्ष में है कि महिलाओं को निश्चित तौर पर ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण नहीं, अगर ५० प्रतिशत आरक्षण की जरूरत भी पड़े, तो दिया जाना चाहिए, हमें इसमें कोई आपत्ति नहीं है, लेकिन हम इसके स्वरूप का विरोध करते हैं।

एक बहन ने यहां बहुत वेदना व्यक्त की। देश के विकास के लिए, उन्नति के लिए महिलाओं ने बहुत कंट्रीब्यूशन दिया है। वह जननी है। मैं इस बात को मानता हूं कि महिला हर रूप में देवी है, मां है, बहन है, क्या-क्या कहा जाए, उसने सबमें सफल स्थान प्राप्त करने का काम किया। मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि पिछले ७-८ सालों तक हमारी पार्टी ने एक महिला को नेतृत्व प्रदान किया। मैं जिस प्रदेश से आता हूं, वहां की मुख्य मंत्री श्रीमती राबड़ी देवी रही हैं जो गांव की महिला हैं। हमारी पार्टी इस बात को मानती है कि महिलाओं को आगे बढ़ने का समान अवसर देना चाहिए, लेकिन मैं उन महिलाओं की तरफ भी ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहता हूं जो गांवों में रहती हैं, मिट्टी काटने वाली हैं। लालू प्रसाद जी, राष्ट्रीय अध्यक्ष ने लक्ष्य तय किया और मिट्टी और गिट्टी काटने वाली की बेटी, भगवती देवी को संसद में भेजने का काम किया। वह दलित महिला थी और सपने में भी नहीं सोच सकती थी कि हम देश की इतनी बड़ी पंचायत में जाएंगे। वह मूसर जाति की थी। हम उनकी तरफ ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहते हैं, जिनकी आबादी ९८ प्रतिशत है। शैडयूल्ड कास्ट्स, शैडयूल्ड ट्राइब्स, ओबीसी, पिछड़े और माइनौरिटी आदि, सबने एक स्वर से कहा है कि हम महिलाओं के आरक्षण के विरोध में नहीं है। फिर क्या कारण है और यह सब क्यों हो रहा है?

संविधान की मूल धारा १५(४) में पहले आरक्षण का अवसर प्रदान नहीं किया गया था। उसमें स्पष्ट रूप से एससी, एसटी और ओबीसी लिखा हुआ है, फिर लोगों की जुबान में क्यों नहीं आ रहा है। जो सामाजिक और शैक्षणिक रूप से पिछड़े वर्ग हैं, उनको आगे बढ़ने का अवसर मिलना चाहिए। क्या कारण है कि आज बहुत से लोग केवल राजनीति कर रहे हैं। वे शैडयूल्ड कास्ट्स, माइनौरिटी और बैकवर्ड जाति की बात तो करेंगे, लेकिन जब उनको जगह देने की बात आती है, हिस्सेदारी देने की बात आती है, तो उन्हें रोकने का काम करेंगे – क्या हो गया है लोगों को? यह कहा जाता है कि राष्ट्रीय जनता दल महिला आरक्षण का विरोधी है, कदापि विरोधी नहीं है। मैं आगे बढ़कर फिर कहना चाहता हूं कि आप ३३ प्रतिशत रिजर्वेशन नहीं, ५० प्रतिशत कीजिए, लेकिन खेत-खलिहान में काम करने वाली महिलाओं, रात-दिन खून-पसीना बहाकर हमारी सेवा करने वाली महिलाओं का क्या होगा। आप कितने प्रतिशत गरीब तबके के लोगों को लोक सभा में भेजने का काम कर रहे हैं। अगर उनकी उपेक्षा की गई, उनकी हकमारी करने का काम किया गया, तो क्या हम समझते हैं कि सबको समान रूप से हिस्सेदारी देने की बात करेंगे। इसलिए मैं निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि अगर आप संविधान में आरक्षण का प्रावधान करते हैं, तो आपको उन गरीब लोगों के प्रति भी ध्यान देना पड़ेगा जो बैकवर्ड हैं, ओबीसी हैं[R43]  और जो अल्पसंख्यक हैं , जो वर्षों से सताये हुए लोग हैं, जो समाज के बैकबैंचर्स हैं, जिनके तन पर कपड़े फटे रहते हैं और जिनके पास खाने के लिए दो वक्त की रोटी नहीं है — उनकी आवाज कौन उठा पायेगा,  उनका प्रतनधित्व कैसे हो पायेगा?  जो एनआरआई हैं, जो पढ़े लिखे लोग हैं, क्या उनके माध्यम से उनका प्रतनधित्व हो पायेगा?

आज मैं उन सामाजिक न्याय के योद्धाओं को धन्यवाद देना चाहूंगा जिन्होंने गरीबों के उत्थान के लिए, पिछड़ों के उत्थान के लिए, कमेरे वर्ग के उत्थान के लिए लड़ाई लड़ने का काम किया। जो हमारे सामाजिक न्याय के पूरोधा रहे हैं, उनका सपना लोक सभा में साकार हो रहा है। पहले जो व्यवस्था थी, उसके तहत लोक सभा में बड़े-बड़े नेताओं के बाल-बच्चे आया करते थे या करोड़पति- अरबपति आया करते थे। हमारे जैसे कई ऐसे लोग हैं, जो पिछड़े वर्ग के हैं जिन्होंने सपने में भी नहीं सोचा था कि हम लोक सभा में आयेंगे, मगर राष्ट्रीय जनता दल और श्री लालू प्रसाद यादव के प्रयत्नों का ही परिणाम है कि आज दूध दोहने वाले का बेटा भी भारत की सबसे बड़ी पंचायत में आकर उनकी आवाज को उठाने का काम कर रहा है।

जिस जगह पर बड़े-बड़े लोग चुनकर आया करते थे, मैं सिर्फ अपने बिहार की बात नहीं कर रहा हूं बल्कि देश के अन्य भागों में भी परिवर्तन की धारा चली है और आज गरीब और पिछड़े वर्ग का बेटा भी इस लोक सभा में अपनी आवाज उठा सकता है। …( व्यवधान) 

सभापति महोदय :   अब आप समाप्त करिये।

…( व्यवधान)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : मैं अपनी बात कह रहा हूं। …( व्यवधान)  Please permit me, Sir.

सभापति महोदय :   आपको बोलते हुए छ: मिनट हो गये हैं। समय की पाबंदी है।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. CHAIRMAN : We have to regulate the House. Kindly cooperate.

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : मैं को-आपरेट कर रहा हूं। सामाजिक न्याय एक सिद्धांत है। इस सिद्धांत को राष्ट्रीय जनता दल ने कभी छोड़ने का काम नहीं किया और न कभी करेगी। हमारा इस संबंध में कमिटमैंट है। हमारी लोक सभा में २४-२५ मैम्बर्स की स्टैंथ है। अपने उसूलों के बल पर ही हमने जनता से मैनडेट लेने का काम किया है। हमने कहा है कि हम महिलाओं को आरक्षण देंगे मगर जब तक ओबीसी, एससी, एसटी और माइनोरिटीज की महिलाओं का आरक्षण नहीं होगा तब तक हम इस बिल को सपोर्ट नहीं करेंगे। जब तक इस देश में मिट्टी-गिट्टी काटने वाला, खेत-खलिहान में काम करने वाला जो पिछड़ा वर्ग है, दलित है, झोंपड़ियों में रहता है, उनका प्रतनधित्व नहीं होगा तब तक हम इस बिल के पक्ष में नहीं हैं। हम कदापि महिला आरक्षण के विरोधी नहीं हैं। आप इस बिल में संशोधन करकेलाइये, तो सबसे अगली पंक्ति में राष्ट्रीय जनता दल रहेगा और आपके इस बिल को सपोर्ट करने का काम करेगा। यह मैं आज आपसे निवेदन करना चाहता हूं। इस बिल का आप जो प्रारुप लाने जा रहे हैं, जिस पर चर्चा हो रही है, यह बिल नौ साल से लंबित पड़ा हुआ है। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि क्यों यह नौ साल से लंबित पड़ा हुआ है ? भारतीय जनता पार्टी …( व्यवधान) 

श्री अशोक प्रधान (खुर्जा) : हम तो इस बिल को लेकर आये हैं। …( व्यवधान) 

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : आप किस वजह से लेकर आये हैं, मुझे मालूम है। …( व्यवधान)  आपकी इसके पीछे जो भावना रही है, वह मुझे मालूम है। आप आधे अधूरे मन से लेकर आने वाले लोग हैं। …( व्यवधान)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will be recorded.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly address to the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव :     आपका कमिटमैंट गरीबों के प्रति, पिछड़ों के प्रति नहीं है। …( व्यवधान)   आप सिर्फ घड़ियाली आंसू रोने का काम करते रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान) 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly conclude now.

__________________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded
श्री राम कृपाल यादव : इसलिए मैं आपसे निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि आप खुले मन से आइये। …( व्यवधान)  भारतीय जनता पार्टी और एनडीए का कभी भी गरीबों और पिछड़ों के प्रति कमिटमैंट नहीं है। ये तो एनआरआईज को रिप्रैजेंट करने वाले लोग हैं। ऐसे संस्कार में बसने वाले लोग हैं। …( व्यवधान)  एनआरआईज के प्रति, अंग्रेजी बोलने वालों के प्रति इनका कमिटमैंट है। …( व्यवधान) 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Ram Kripal Yadav.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except Shri Ram Kripal Yadav’s speech.

… (Interruptions)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव :आप दो परसेंट महिलाओं को आरक्षण देने वाले लोग हैं इसलिए आप क्या बोलेंगे ? …( व्यवधान)    आपकी आवाज कहां चली गयी ?  आप क्यों नहीं पिछड़ों, दलितों और शोषितों की बात करते ? …( व्यवधान)  

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव :  क्या वे इस देश की आबादी नहीं हैं ?  देश की आबादी के ९८ परसेंट लोग यही हैं। …( व्यवधान)    देश कभी आगे नहीं बढ़ सकता। …( व्यवधान)  न्याय की बात नहीं की जा सकती। …( व्यवधान)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly cooperate.

श्री राम कृपाल यादव :  इसलिए मैं सदन के सभी पक्षों के लोगों से अपील करना चाहता हूं कि जब-जब महिलाओं को अवसर मिला है, उन्होंने हिन्दुस्तान को आगे बढ़ाया है। …( व्यवधान)  अगर आप दलितों, पिछड़ों, शोषितों और अकलियतों को पीछे छोड़कर रखेंगे तो हिन्दुस्तान की तकदीर कभी बदल नहीं सकती।

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इस बिल का जो स्वरूप है, अगर वह उसी स्वरूप में आयेगा, तो उनको तब तक हिस्सेदारी नहीं मिल सकती जब तक आप समान रूप से सबको हिस्सा देने की बात नहीं करते। यह सिर्फ दिखावा होगा, ढकोसला होगा। …( व्यव्ाधान[r44] ) 

MR. CHAIRMAN : You have already taken 12 minutes. You are a very learned, responsible and good Member. Please conclude now.

 श्री राम कृपाल यादव : सभापति जी, मैं अपनी बात समाप्त ही कर रहा हूं और कहना चाहता हूं कि अगर आप भारत की तकदीर बदलना चाहते है, भारत को अगर सब वर्गों का प्रतनधित्व देना चाहते हैं तो आइए, मुख्य धारा में गरीबों, पिछड़ों, शोषितों औऱ दलितों को लाने के लिए इस आरक्षण बिल में संशोधन करके लाइए। राष्ट्रीय जनता दल इसमें हमेशा से आगे रहा है और आगे रहने का काम करेगा।…( व्यवधान)  

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Shri P. Karunakaran to speak now.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Karunakaran.

(Interruptions) … *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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SHRI P. KARUNAKARAN Sir, I thank for the opportunity given to me to speak on this Resolution.

            I support the Resolution moved by our hon. Member Shri C.K. Chandrappan.  It is very sad to note that it is after 58 years of Independence that we discuss whether we have to give reservation to women or not. We are quarrelling amongst ourselves  as to who is to be given and who is not to be given. Why are we not able to give it? I cannot understand it. The point is that women constitute half of the electorate in the world and half of the population in the world. It is true in the case of India. It is true in the case of Kerala also as well as any other State. When we look into the Council of Ministers, we are really in a very bad position. We are not attaining the 33 per cent mark in the case of Ministers. We are not able to attain it in the case of Members of Parliament. We are not able to attain it in the case of Members of Rajay Sabha. It is true  in the case of  Assemblies also.      

            Nowadays, in all the fields we see that women are able to work with men. Either in the administration as IAS officers or  in the political field or in the health service or in the educational field or in any other field, we see that women can do the work what the men are doing. Then, why are we not able to think that we can have a consensus to give 33 per cent reservation to women?

            In the light of the 73rd and 74th Constitutional Amendments, it is evident that women can do a lot of things in the administration. The main thing is that women have to be given a chance in the political decision-making bodies. In the case of local panchayats, block panchayats and also district panchayats, when we have given the one-third reservation to women, as far as Kerala is concerned, I am sure that we have made tremendous changes. They work as Panchayat Presidents, Block Panchayat Presidents and District Panchayat Presidents. No doubt, when we compare them with  other panchayats, they have done a very good job. I am proud of saying that because I have got the chance of participating in Delhi itself in the Total Sanitation Programme and also in the Rajiv Gandhi Drinking Water Mission.  In the Gram Panchayats and District Panchayats, who are the Presidents and who are the Chairpersons? They are women members.  They have done it well as far as Kerala is concerned.  We have seen that in the grass-root level organisations, they are participating in the panchayat meetings, ward meetings and they are interacting with the IAS officers and also with many other officers. We see that we have such a leadership amongst us. Then, why can we not give 33 per cent reservation to them? When we see the statistics, in any country, the total population of women is 50 per cent. So, it is really not a question of showing some mercy. I think this discussion itself is a sympathetic one. There is no need of extending any sympathy. That is their right. We have to do justice to them. We have to give due share to women[R45] .

I can say that a discussion is going on in the Parliament as well as outside with regard to the Women’s Reservation Bill that may come in the Parliament.  As stated by other respected Members, why should we worry? Why can we not introduce the Bill in the House?  Let us start the discussion.  It is not the question of hiding anyone.  It is because if we are not able to give due importance to womenfolk, no doubt this House and also this century would really be committing some crime. Even in some countries, in South Africa they are giving more representation to women as compared to our country. 

We have a long history; we have a long tradition.  Some comrades and some hon. Members have cited some of the great leaders as women Prime Ministers, and also on many other positions.  You see that this is the question of social justice that we have to give to women.  The political decision is the main issue.  The women have to participate in those fields.  That is possible now in the local bodies but that is not possible in the State Assemblies or in the Parliament.  So, this House has to take a decision.  Of course, it is true that there should be some consensus.  How far is it possible to do that?  Even if there is no consensus, the UPA Government should come with this original Bill.  We are fully supporting that. 

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.

SHRI P. KARUNAKARAN :  I am just concluding, Sir.  You see that there is a discussion that the membership has to be increased to 800.  Suppose that is done.  Then, how will we identify ourselves if 800 Members are there in the House and what about the security?  What is the mentality that is ruling?  It is the mentality of the feudal view that we are not able to give any share to the women.  Women can take it.  You create more seats and then only we can give that.  So, I would like to conclude with these words.  Women cannot, women must not and women will not be kept away from the political decision bodies.  All parties will have to understand this.  Otherwise, they will have to pay in the future for this great crime.

श्री इलियास आज़मी सभापति महोदय, मैं न तो इस संकल्प का समर्थन करने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं और न विरोध करने के लिए। मैं अपने कुछ विचार सदन के सामने रखना चाहता हूँ। हम कभी विरोध कर ही नहीं सकते हैं, क्योंकि हम उस पार्टी से सम्बन्ध रखते हैं, जिसकी सर्वोच्च नेता एक महिला है, एक ऐसी दलित महिला जो तीन-तीन बार उत्तर प्रदेश की मुख्यमंत्री रह चुकी हैं। लेकिन सवाल यह है कि वे कौन लोग हैं जो बिना किसी तफ़रीक के ३३ प्रतिशत आरक्षण देना चाहते हैं? ये वही मुट्ठी भर लोग हैं जिन्होंने हजारों सालों से, अपनी ताल-तिकड़म से और अपनी बुद्धि या विवेक, चाहे जो कह लीजिए, से पूरे समाज को एक तरह से गुलाम बना रखा है। पूरी दुनिया में इन्कलाब आए, इस्लाम की आंधी की आई, वे अपना झण्डा यहां लहरा कर चले गये, लेकिन यहां के समाज में वे परिवर्तन नहीं ला सके क्योंकि यह पूरा समाज हमेशा मुट्ठी भर लोगों की जकड़न में रहा है। जो लोग इस जमाने में भी सती प्रथा को जिन्दा करने का प्रयास करते हैं, क्या वे महिलाओं के हमदर्द हो सकते हैं? जो मां के पेट में ही लड़कियों की हत्या करने में नम्बर एक पर हैं, क्या वे लोग महिलाओं के हमदर्द हो सकते हैं? क्या वे लोग महिलाओं के हिमायती हो सकते हैं, जिन्होंने महिलाओं के बारे में पता नहीं क्या-क्या लिख रखा है? ये लोग महिलाओं के हमदर्द नहीं हो सकते हैं।

असली बात यह है कि यह वे लोग हैं जो मुट्ठी भर होने के बावजूद, अपने ताल-तिकड़म से विधायिका पर कब्जा किए हुए थे। जागरूकता, शिक्षा के प्रसार से विधायिका पर उनका कब्जा और एकाधिकार समाप्त हो रहा है। इसीलिए अब वे महिलाओं के नाम पर इस अधिकार को समाप्त करना चाहते हैं। मैं कहता हूँ कि अगर महिलाओं के हमदर्द हैं तो आगे आइए, मैं आपको चुनौती देता हूँ क ३५ प्रतिशत नहीं बल्कि ५० प्रतिशत आरक्षण के लिए बिल लाइए। लेकिन दलित, पिछड़े, अल्पसंख्यक और ऊंचे लोगों को आबादी के अनुपात में बांटकर आरक्षण दीजिए, तो हम ५० प्रतिशत आरक्षण का समर्थन करने के लिए तैयार हैं। हम यह नहीं मानेंगे कि ये सिर्फ महिलाओं की बात करें। ये लोग जानते हैं कि हजारों सालों से चला आ रहा इनका ताल-तिकड़म अब खत्म हो रहा है, इसीलिए महिलाओं के नाम पर उसे किसी तरह से बचाना चाहते हैं। अगर महिलाओं का आरक्षण बैकवर्ड, एससी और माइनारिटी महिलाओं में बांट दिया जाए तो क्या महिलाओं की जगह पुरूष आ जाएंगे? जी नहीं, महिलाओं की जगह पर पुरूष नहीं आ जाएंगे, महिलाएं ही आएंगी। अगर आप महिलाओं के हमदर्द हैं तो लाइए इस बिलको[r46] ।[r47] 

अगर तुम महिलाओं के प्रति इतने ही हमदर्द हो, तो फिर ५० प्रतिशत आरक्षण देने वाला बिल सदन में लाएं, हम उसका समर्थन करने के लिए तैयार हैं। हमारा लोकतंत्र धीरे-धीरे तंत्र लोक में बदल चुका है। तंत्र ही असल मालिक हो चुका है। इस सदन में ही सिर्फ लोक का महत्व रह गया है, बाहर नहीं। १३-१३ लाख, १५-१५ लाख लोगों के हम प्रतनधि एक मामूली नौकर के सामने लोगों का काम कराने के लिए गिड़गिड़ा रहे हैं। चूंकि दौलत उन्हीं के पास है, ताकत उन्हीं के पास है*,…. वे विधायिका पर जिस दिन कब्जा कर लेंगे, वह दिन इस देश की तारीख का, लोकतंत्र की तारीख का सबसे काला दिन होगा। इस साजिश में भी शरीक हैं, क्योंकि सारा धन उन्हीं के पास जमा हो चुका है। इसलिए इन सब बातों पर अच्छी तरह से गौर करना चाहिए।

सभापति जी, मैं कभी चेयर की अवहेलना नहीं करता इसलिए इतना ही कहकर मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

ग्रामीण विकास मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री तथा संसदीय कार्य मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (श्रीमती सूर्यकान्ता पाटील) : किसी महिला के बारे में या उसके अच्छा या बुरा होने के बारे में उल्लेख करना उचित नहीं है। आप हमें रिजर्वेशन दें या न दें, कम से कम महिलाओं के बारे में ऐसा न कहें।

सभापति महोदय : महिलाओं के बारे में गलत बात न कहें। जो भी गलत कहा गया है, वह रिकार्ड से निकाल दिया जाएगा। आप इस बात की बिल्कुल भी चिंता न करें। We will delete it from the record.

श्री इलियास आज़मी : क्या बैकवर्ड क्लास और एस.सी. की महिलाएं महिला नहीं हैं।

सभापति महोदय : आप उसमें न जाएं, हम गलत शब्द कार्यवाही से निकाल देंगे।

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श्री अधीर चौधरी सभापति जी, चन्द्रप्पन साहब ने सदन में जो संकल्प पेश किया है, मैं उसका समर्थन करते हुए दो-चार शब्द कहना चाहता हूं।  Sir, it is the said that women are the poetry of the world.  They are stars or the poetry of the heaven giving clear light and harmony.  They are the terrestrial planets that determine the destinies of mankind.  जब हम लोग होश सम्भालते हैं, तो मां कहकर पुकारते हैं। आज वह मातृ जाति अगर अपना हक मांगने के लिए कोई विधेयक लाना चाहती है, उसका विरोध हो, तो यह हम सबके लिए बड़े खेद की बात है। यह भी खेद की बात है कि महिला जाति को अपना हक प्रदान करने के लिए इतनी बहस करनी पड़ रही है। मैं सदन में सबसे पहले यह कहना चाहता हूं कि बिना किसी बहस के यह विधेयक जल्द से जल्द सरकार पेश करे और पारित कराए। कुछ माननीय सदस्यों ने इस संकल्प के बारे में जो बातें कहीं, मुझे लगता है कि उससे मेल शॉवनिज्म की बू आती है। कोई न कोई एक्सक्यूज खड़ा करके इस महत्वपूर्ण संकल्प की जो स्पिरिट है, जो एसेंस है, उसे वे नष्ट-भ्रष्ट करना चाहते हैं।

एक जमाने से इस देश में महिला जाति को श्रद्धापूर्वक नजरों से हम देखते आ रहे हैं। एनशिएंट पीरियड से शुरू होकर आज तक हिन्दू मैथोलॉजी को आप देखें, वही चीज रिफलेक्ट होती है। हिन्दुस्तान की आजादी के बाद संविधान सभा में सबसे पहले महिला संरक्षण के बारे में चर्चा हुई थी। लेकिन उस वक्त महिला सदस्यों ने इसका विरोध करते हुए कहा था कि जब हिन्दुस्तान में लोकतंत्र है, तो लोकतंत्र में इन्हैरेंट, इन्ग्रिडिएंट जो आते हैं, उसमें क्वालिटी होनी चाहिए। यह कहा गया कि देश आजाद हो गया है, जब हम समानता की बात करते हैं तो फिर रिजर्वेशन की जरूरत नहीं है। लेकन आज हालात ऐसी जगह पहुंच गए हैं कि हम लोग उस चीज को रिअलाइज नहीं करते। इसलिए अवसर देने के नाते हमें यह विधेयक लाने की जरूरत है[R48] ।

यूपीए सरकार आम सहमति से विधेयक पेश करने का प्रयास कर रही है। यूपीए सरकार के माननीय प्रधान मंत्री, नेशनल एडवाइज़री कौंसिल की चेयरमैन श्रीमती सोनिया जी, सब पार्टियों से विचार-विमर्श करके, आम सहमति से यह विधेयक लाना चाहती हैं। पिछली सरकार बार-बार यह विधेयक लाई और ८१वें, ८४वें एवं ८५वें अमेंडमेंट के द्वारा नये-नये इनकारनेशन हुए, लेकिन उनका कोई रिफलेक्शन नहीं हुआ। हम चाहते हैं कि यह विधेयक जल्दी से जल्दी आये और देश की ५० प्रतिशत महिलाओं को उनका हक मिले।

इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Tathagata Satpathy, please be very brief and precise because there are two more speakers and then the Minister will reply.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am extremely grateful to you for giving me this opportunity. I will just take two minutes.

            The main question is this. Who needs reservation? Is it the weak? Is it the helpless? Who needs reservation? Are we accepting the fact that our mothers, our sisters, the Lakshmis, the Kalis, the Durgas of India need reservation? I do not think so. The women of India have stood up through time immemorial against all sorts of oppression, deprivation and they have the courage and innate strength to guide this nation. They have done it, they have proved it time and again.

            Sir, it is amazing that when the Members of the Congress Party, which is a part of the ruling coalition, talk about their leadership, they talk about late Shrimati Indira Gandhi or Shrimati Sonia Gandhi now. In one breath they take the names of these two ladies. It just shows that both these ladies did not need any reservation. Even the Minister who has struggled and come up in politics did not need any reservation in her constituency to enter this House. In Orissa also, when my mother was the Chief Minister, she did not need any reservation. It just goes to show that women have the strength and they do not need the kindness of men. What is this 33 per cent or what is this 50 per cent? Probably a time can come when women can have 100 per cent representation in this House. We should welcome that. It is the men who have to get out of this mindset of being dayalu. Are we being kind to women by saying that we would excuse the weaknesses of the fair sex, the weak sex and so we would allow them some quarter to survive? This is a ridiculous thought. We speak about sati and on the same breath we accept the ideology of purdah. We have to get out of this deobandi mindset. We cannot accept that kind of a mindset in a modern country.

            Sir, I strongly oppose reservation and I think all women should be supported to grow on their own strength. They have grown and they will lead. They are our mothers, they are the Durgas, they are the Kalis. Long Live Indian womanhood!

MR. CHAIRMAN : There are a number of Members who want to participate. But due to constraint of time, I will allow only one or two Members to speak now provided they cooperate with the Chair by speaking briefly.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : All Resolutions are important, all speakers are important, all points are important, but time is also important. Now Shri Sunil Khan will speak. Please be very brief[k49] .

16.00 hrs.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions) … *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded

श्री सुनील खां सभापति महोदय, श्री सी. के. चन्द्रप्पन जो रैजोल्यूशन लाए हैं, मैं उसका समर्थन करने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं। १९९६ से जब से मैं इस सदन में आया हूं, उसी समय से देख रहा हूं कि ११वीं, १२वीं, १३वीं और १४वीं लोक सभा में एक सरकारी बिल के माध्यम से इस पर कई दफा चर्चा हुई। यदि इधर से कोई बोलने के लिए खड़ा होता है तो महिलाओं के बारे में बहुत ज्यादा समर्थन व्यक्त किया जाता है लेकिन उसके ऊपर भी सामंती मानसिकता काम करती है इसलिए उस समय उसका समर्थन नहीं किया जाता हैं। पहले हमें यह देखना चाहिए कि महिलाएं इस दिशा में कैसा काम कर रही हैं? आजादी के समय से हम महिलाओं की शक्ति के बारे में देख रहे हैं। प्रीतिलता वड्डेडर ने आजादी की लड़ाई लड़ी थी। मातंगिनी हाजरा को भी हमने देखा था। लीला मित्रा को भी उस समय देखा था। लक्खी सहगल नेता जी के समय आईएनए की कैप्टन बनी थी। महिला की शक्ति जब विकसित होती है तो उसका बच्चे के ऊपर असर पड़ता है। ईश्वर चन्द विद्यासागर जिन की मां का नाम भगवती देवी था, जब वह मां की शरण लेते थे तो हमने देखा कि दामोदर में इतना तूफान आया कि वह उसमें क्रश हो गए थे। मां की शरण लेने पर इतना जोश बढ़ जाता था। । नन्दनी सत्पथी का लड़का यहां एमपी बन कर आया है। जब वह भी बोलने के लिए खड़े हुए तो उनमें जोश पैदा हो जाता है। She was a good leader also. असैम्बली और संसद में महिलाओं के लिए ३३ परसैंट रिजर्वेशन होना चाहिए। यदि यह बिल संसद में पास हो जाए तो अच्छा है, वरना हर महिला यह सोचेगी कि जो इसके बारे में बोलते हैं. वे भी इसमें डिसक्रमिनेशन करते हैं। इस बिल के पक्ष में कौन है और विपक्ष में कौन है, इसके बारे में सब जानते हैं। पश्चिम बंगाल में ७३वें अमैंडमैंट के आगे भी पंचायतों में महिलाओं को सीटें देकर ज्यादा से ज्यादा प्रधान बनाया गया है।

MR. CHAIRMAN: We are doing it in Maharashtra also.

श्री सुनील खां : कोलकाता म्युनसिपल कार्पोरेशन में महिलाओं को ४० परसैंट सीटें दी गईं। यह बिल ज्यादा से ज्यादा सहमति से पारित कर दें, तो बहुत अच्छा है। हमारी पार्टी इस बिल का १९९६ से समर्थन कर रही है और अभी भी कर रही है। हम पूरे देश को दिखाना चाहते हैं कि हमने पश्चिमी बंगाल में छ: सभापति बनाए हैं। उधर मैन हैडिड नहीं होता है, वूमैन ही चलाती हैं, लेकिन दूसरी जगहों में ऐसा नहीं होता है। मैं सभी दलों के लीडर्स से कहना चाहता हूं कि कृपया इस सदन में महिलाओं के लिए ३३ परसैंट रिजर्वेशन संबंधी बिल सर्वसम्मति से पास करिए।

SHRI SURESH KURUP Mr. Chairman, Sir, I congratulate my learned colleague Comrade C.K. Chandrappan who brought this Resolution of current importance before this House.… (Interruptions)  At the same time, it shows lack of political will on the part of the Government regarding this legislation.  It is because this is a part of the Common Minimum Programme.  An important aspect of the Common Minimum Programme – I seek the indulgence of the House – is that the UPA Government is committed to bring forth the Women Reservation Bill. [r50] 

            Now, Sir, suddenly the talk of consensus has emerged.  I do not know when this talk of consensus has emerged.  In bringing forth an important social legislation, the history of this country shows that there has never been consensus.  What about the Hindi Code Bill?  Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, facing all sorts of reactionary opposition in the country, single-handedly brought the Bill in this House and passed it.  So, it is the will of the Government, the will of the Ruling Party that is needed.  That is why, people have elected this Government.  This Government is here in power on the basis of a programme which was put before the people and later a Common Minimum Programme of all the supporting parties was formulated.  So, this Government should show the political will to introduce the Women Reservation Bill giving 33 per cent reservation to women in the Parliament and also in the State Legislatures and pass it.  When the reactionary Muslim Women Bill was introduced and passed in the House, I happened to be a Member. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : I know.  I was also there.

SHRI SURESH KURUP : In spite of all sorts of opposition from all the progressive forces in the country, that Bill was passed.  … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Shri Suresh Kurup, please wait for a minute.

            Now, the extended time allotted for this Bill is over. The Minister has to reply.  We may extend the time for this Bill by 15 to 20 minutes.  After that, we will have to take up the next Resolution also.

            Is it the sense of the House to extend the time for this Bill by 20 minutes?

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So, the time for this Bill is extended by another 20 minutes.

            Shri Suresh Kurup, you may continue your speech now.

SHRI SURESH KURUP : Sir, it was the NDA Government which initially brought this consensus business regarding the Women Reservation Bill.  They could pass the Prevention of Terrorism Bill, which was defeated in the Rajya Sabha, by convening a Joint Session of both the Houses of Parliament and they had the temerity to pass it in spite of all opposition. … (Interruptions)         It is easy to say about Kali and all those things but the actual fact is that in every sphere of life, women are under-represented.

            Sir, what was the ILO study?  You allow me two more minutes, Sir. Anyway you have extended the time.  … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please address the Chair.  If you start addressing other Members, then time will be lost, and you will be responsible for it.

SHRI SURESH KURUP :  Sir, the International Labour Organisation study shows, “while women represent 50 per cent of the world adult population and a third of the official labour force, they perform nearly two-thirds of all working hours, receive a tenth of world income and own less than one per cent of world property”.  This is the situation of women all over the world. It is nobody’s charity.  It is the right of women of this country that they should get representation in all spheres of life, especially in the Legislatures. Their voice should be heard in the Parliament and in the State Legislatures. The Eighty-third Constitution (Amendment) Bill, which gave one-third representation to women in all the Panchayat Samitis, is proved beyond doubt and it is working successfully. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You are right.

SHRI SURESH KURUP : Heavens had not fallen down when you gave proper representation to women in the Panchayat Samitis.  … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude your speech.  The Minister has to reply.

SHRI SURESH KURUP : I will conclude my speech in two minutes. 

            The higher representation in all these bodies shows that the level of corruption will be less.  The studies have revealed that women representation in all the bodies has made corruption less.

            So, what I want to say is that this UPA Government should show the political will to bring forth this Bill, and in spite of all opposition and whoever opposes it, this Government should bring forward this Bill in this House and pass it.  … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please conclude now. 

SHRI SURESH KURUP : Sir, please allow me one more minute.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Kindly co-operate.  You are a very good speaker.  Please conclude now[lh51] .

SHRI SURESH KURUP : As a tailpiece, I would like to say one thing. In the South African Parliament it was only one lady Member, the legendary Helen Holsman, who said that apartheid should be abolished. She was heckled and thrown out of the House. None of the male Members supported her.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, Mr. Minister. Kindly co-operate. Be brief and precise.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF LAW & JUSTICE     (SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY): Sir, I am very happy to note that this House could discuss on the important commitments of the Government by way of the Resolution moved by Shri C.K. Chandrappan, our beloved friend.

            The motion is:

“In view of the demand for ensuring adequate representation to women in the State Legislatures and Parliament gaining ground, this House resolves that the Central Government should bring forward a suitable legislation to reserve at least one third of the seats for women in all the State legislatures and both Houses of Parliament.”

 

            In this connection, I would like to draw the attention of this august House to the fact that the United Progressive Alliance in its National Common Minimum Programme has stated that the Government will take the lead to introduce legislation for one-third reservation for women in the House of the People and the Legislative Assemblies of the States. The same commitment was also reflected in the inaugural address of the President to the Joint Session of Parliament on 7.6.2004. Since reservation of seats for women is an important feature of the Common Minimum Programme, the hon. Prime Minister also directed that the issue of piloting the Bill initially be discussed in the Coordination Committee of the United Progressive Alliance.  After holding discussion with certain political parties, a new Bill has been prepared by this Government. The Bill has the following features:-

1)    The Bill provides one-third reservation for women, including the number of seats reserved for women of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes in the House of the People and Legislative Assemblies of the States. One-third reservation for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes shall be within the reserved seats for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, as the case may be. There is also a provision to make one-third reservation by rotation, where the total number of seats is one or two, by adopting the block-wise formula.

2)    The Bill provides for reservation for women in respect of nominations of Members of Anglo-Indian community in the House of the People and Legislative Assemblies of the States.

3)    The Bill provides for reservation for women in the Legislative Assembly of the National Capital Territory of Delhi.

4)    The provision of reservation for women should cease to have effect on the expiration of a period of 15 years from the day of enactment of the Bill.

5)    The Bill does not provide for reservation for women belonging to Other Backward Classes as also for extending similar reservation to women in the Rajya Sabha.

With a view to arriving at a consensus, a meeting of UPA was held on 23rd August. We also convened a meeting of leaders of all the political parties on 24th August for ascertaining the views of the parties. In view of the divergence of opinion, no consensus could be arrived at. I hope an agreeable formula could be arrived at in the near future. This also includes the formula of the Election Commission put forth by the BJP.

Therefore, there are three views. One view is that in the existing seats, one-third seats should be reserved for women. Another view is to increase 33 per cent seats so that 543 seats will become 724 so that women could be provided the required seats. And the third proposal is the one put forth by the BJP that the political parties should reserve one-third of the seats.… (Interruptions) Yes, this is the view of the Election Commission also. Therefore, the political parties should be insisted to reserve 33 per cent of seats for women[m52] .

[t53] 

So, any one of these theories should be adopted.  Therefore, in view of the aforesaid, it may be noted that the Government has been making sincere efforts for evolving a consensus on the provisions of a legislation providing for reservation for women in Lok Sabha and State Legislative Assemblies.  The matter is to be considered in its entirety and a consensus amongst political parties is yet to be arrived at.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly complete.

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: Hence, unless a consensus is arrived at, it may not be possible to finalize the proposal.  This will take some more time.

            Therefore, in the circumstances, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw the Resolution.… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR): You said that in view of something, I should withdraw the Resolution. But on what basis, should I withdraw it? … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chandrappan, please be brief.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : I should hear from the Minister.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: The Government is trying their best to come to a consensus, and then they will come with a legislation.

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: I have stated that in the circumstances, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw the Resolution.… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Do you want me to withdraw?… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, he wants you to withdraw the Resolution.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: I have got very good appreciation for this, and our hon. Members have expressed their views and opinions. … (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Will you bring the Bill in a stipulated time?

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: The consensus will definitely be arrived at.  I sincerely hope.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chandrappan, you kindly be brief.

… (Interruptions)

सभापति महोदय :  कम से कम मूवर को तो बोलने दें।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record. Only the Mover may kindly withdraw the Resolution.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : I have to reply. It is my right.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I am requesting you to withdraw.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : I am really disappointed by the reply of the Minister. Thirty-five Members of this august House have participated and spoken on this Resolution.  I think, an overwhelming majority, except a very few, was in full support of a legislation providing one-third representation to women. We are asking you for this because it is a part of the National Common Minimum Programme. If you are telling that you will do it only after the consensus is arrived at, then I will say that the consensus will never arrive.  We have seen how they have tried consensus for five years, and it did not come. I do not want this Government to do that exercise. They should have more serious commitment to the promise that has been made to the country, and they should also take a firm position because you are a Party claiming to have Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru’s heritage and Shrimati Indira Gandhi’s heritage. There was no consensus arrived at whenever important Constitutional amendments were brought forward. In the of Constitutional Amendment to overcome the Golak Nath Case verdict, you did not go for consensus. It was voted and decided. What is lacking is a political will. If

__________________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded

political will is not there, this is never going to happen. This is all trying an attempt to dupe the people of this country and saying that we are for this or that.

            I have a word for BJP about the kind of acrobatic exercise that they have done. It is a perfect acrobatic feat. You were the people who promised the blank cheque.… (Interruptions)

 

16.19 hrs.                              (Dr. Laxminarayan Pandey in the Chair)

s

SHRI SUSHIL  KUMAR MODI (BHAGALPUR): We have given the blank cheque. We have not withdrawn it.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Chandrappan, you please address the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Still you have a blank cheque!       .… (Interruptions) No, it was withdrawn yesterday.… (Interruptions)

SHRI SUSHIL  KUMAR MODI : No, we have not withdrawn. .… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : This is another blank cheque.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chandrappan, you may address the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : What I am saying is that they have switched over to another suggestion[t54] [t55] … (Interruptions)

            There [e56] are two blank cheques now; earlier, there was one blank cheque from them.

            The point now is that we want this Bill to come. It is not a charity. It is a matter of doing social justice. It is in the spirit of the Constitution which promises in the preamble that it would not discriminate on the basis of sex. Now, women are being discriminated against. So, we want this legislation to come up. I am sorry that the Government is not coming forth with a statement that it would bring in legislation. … (Interruptions)

            They want me to withdraw my Resolution. Is it out of friendship that I should withdraw it?

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: The UPA is committed to introduce a Bill. There is no doubt about it. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please do not interrupt. The hon. Minister is replying now.

… (Interruptions)

श्री सुशील कुमार मोदी : महोदय मैं कुछ क्लैरीफाई करना चाहता हूं।…( व्यवधान)   हमने एक सुझाव दिया था…( व्यवधान) 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: Mr. Chairman, Sir, the UPA is committed to introduce a Bill. There is no doubt about it. There is also no doubt about the fact that we want to empower women politically, socially, economically and in all spheres but we are discussing matters with the political parties and we want to arrive at a consensus.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : If consensus is not available, what would you do?

SHRI K. VENKATAPATHY: The very fact that all the hon. Members are participating in this discussion with avowed interest and zeal would disclose the fact that we are all interested in the matter. So, we have to take the House into confidence. Definitely, the Bill would be introduced after we arrive at a consensus. That is all I would say.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Chandrappan, are you accepting the request of the hon. Minister?

 

 

 

__________________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded
SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Yes. In view of the fact that the Chair is also saying that they have made a commitment to bring forward a Bill and taking into account the fact that the people of this country would not spare anybody who would betray women, I withdraw the Resolution.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Is it the pleasure of the House that the Resolution moved by Shri C.K. Chandrappan be withdrawn?

The Resolution was, by leave, withdrawn.

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