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Title: Combined discussion and voting on the Demand for Excess Grants in respect of the Budget (General) for the year 1999-2000 and Demands for Supplementary Grants in respect of the Budget (General) for the year 2002-2003.
MR. CHAIRMAN : We now move to the next item. Demand for Excess Grant (General) and Supplementary Demands for Grants (General) are to be discussed together. Time allotted for discussion is two hours.
Motions moved:
“That the respective excess sum not exceeding the amount shown in the second column of the Order Paper be granted to the President, out of the Consolidated Fund of India, to make good the excess on the respective grant during the year ended on 31st March, 2000, in respect of the following Demand entered in the first column thereof Demand No. 100. ”
“That the respective supplementary sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President out of the Consolidated Fund of India to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during on the year ending the 31st day of March, 2003, in respect of the following demands entered in the second column thereof, against Demand Nos. “1, 9 to 14, 23 to 26, 28, 38 to 40, 42, 48, 54, 56, 58, 61, 66, 71, 75, 78, 81 to 83, 85, 88 and 102. ”
MR. CHAIRMAN : The time allotted is two hours. Every speaker should remind himself or herself about this time limit.
(CANARA): Sir, I thought you are giving me that much time.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I stand here in this House, at a time, when the economy is certainly not something on which one can congratulate the Government. As was said, it is, perhaps, a very difficult time. The driver in the seat has been changed knowing that the vehicle is almost coming to a grinding halt. However, as everybody is asking, “What can this man do now?” That is your picture. It simply says, “What can this man do now?” All your diplomatic specialisation, all your charm which you used in the diplomatic field as the Foreign Minister, I suppose the Prime Minister expects, will bear some fruit in this Ministry now or is it simply that it became rather uncomfortable to have the former Finance Minister reply to a lot of questions which were being asked and so they thought it is better that you do the explanations in as diplomatic a manner as possible.
Sir, looking at the economy today, industrial growth is stagnating, and exports are falling. The Cabinet has rejected the proposal for VRS, I mean, the compulsory part of it, for Government employees in spite of repeated assurances that you were downsizing the Government, I mean, the bureaucracy, in order to bring down your cost overheads on administration. The PSUs are fast disappearing. I must also say that, perhaps, after all the exercises you have done on fast track capitalism, it is destroying the economy and making India a dependent nation, something which for years we had promised we would never let happen.
If I can recount just some of the effects that we see today: the revenue collections have begun to fall and interest payments are mounting in comparison. Loans are becoming the only way to finance your various schemes and added to that is, of course, the effect of disinvestment in the public sector using that money for your window-dressing of budgetary needs.
There is also now a proposal which, I am told at the instance of the PMO, the Cabinet Secretary has presented for privatising pensions and the Employees’ State Insurance. You will be playing, like you did in the UTI, with 19 million households by privatising pension schemes and let people again do what they did with UTI. You say that this is a way of downsizing, but at the same time, you do not downsize your bureaucracy.
Sir, I am not going into the details of each scam because this is something which we have talked about so many times in this House. The stock market scam saw an estimated Rs. 70,000 crore in share values just disappear. I am on the JPC and I will not go into anything… (Interruptions)
श्री शीशराम सिंह रवि (बिजनौर): आप बिना मतलब के आरोप लगा रही हैं। आप नाम लेकर आरोप लगाएं।
श्रीमती मार्ग्रेट आल्वा: आप मेरी बात का उत्तर दे दीजिएगा, मैं सुनने के लिए तैयार हूं।
श्री शीशराम सिंह रवि : आप लोगों ने खुद ही घोटाले किए हैं और आप यहां बिना मतलब के आरोप लगा रही हैं।
श्रीमती मार्ग्रेट आल्वा: जब आपका सब्जैक्ट आये तब आप बोलियेगा। फाइनेंस के ऊपर आप मत बोलिये।Please do not disturb me. You can give him time and let him speak. He does not have to comment on everything I am saying.
15.00 hrs.
Leaks from within led to huge withdrawals in the UTI leading to its collapse. What has come out in the Press? We recently, just last week, had a briefing by the CII, and I have the figures with me. There was a special briefing for the MPs. The UTI has no money left after redeeming the 30th June Scheme; four schemes fall due this year to be redeemed, and eight more fall due next year. Just for the year 2002, you are going to need Rs. 3,000 crore to Rs. 3,500 crore to be able to pay back the people to whom commitments have been made. Where is the money going to come from? I presume, you will sell some public sector undertakings or borrow from whichever bank in the world is prepared to bail you out. An estimated Rs. 20,000 crore of savings of small people have been lost in the UTI scam, and these are not the big ones. The big ones drew their money in time because they were properly advised through inside sources, but the small people who invested their lives’ savings in UTI are today asking you as to what you have done with their money and where they would go.
Sir, the Defence scams are on tape to see. The Commission is inquiring into it. The Defence Minister has appeared before it. There are top aides in the Defence Ministry in the dock. Some have been court-martialled and others are under investigation. The Commission is meeting. Well, more funds seem to be coming to political parties again, while the Commission is still inquiring.
The ICE age, if I may say so, is melting. ‘Pink slips’ are becoming the order of the day. More and more of the young people, who had thought that the information technology age was a heaven, today, in India, have begun to receive ‘go-home’ slips, the pink slips. The Telecom scam has been discussed and I will not go into it. There was a multi-crore windfall to companies by withdrawing rather by reducing the licence fee. I do not want to ask as to who gained and where.
Sir, there is a debate on the disinvestment issue tomorrow, and I am not going into the details. However, your Tenth Plan Approach Paper has set a target of Rs. 16,000 crores a year from disinvestment . What more are you going to sell? Wherefrom are you going to raise Rs. 16,000 crore every year? Is it going to be done by selling out and disinvestment of all PSUS? ? पता नहीं क्या-क्या बेचना पड़ेगा? राष्ट्रपति भवन को बेचना पड़ेगा। Your annual target for the Tenth Plan, as per the Approach Paper which you circulated, is Rs. 16,000 crore. We have seen the disinvestment of Modern Foods, BALCO, Maruti, and now the Navratnas are on auction, if I may say so. The NALCO matter was discussed in the House. What is the money being used for? आपने कहा कि आप भी कर रहे थे।When Shri Manmohan Singh and the Congress Government went for disinvestment, there was a plan of action. The money was being used for reinvestment either to help the sick units revival or for purposes of creating a fund to help train those who would be out of jobs in the public sector. There was a system and planning. What are you doing today? Where is the money being used except to bridge the gap in your budgetary requirements?
You have come for Supplementary Demands. I suppose, by October, you will come again and, by January, you will come again. मुझे पता नहीं एक्सट्रनल अफेयर्स के लिए अचानक पैसे की जरूरत कैसे पडी? In the middle of the year, what was so big that the External Affairs Ministry has done? It has been a disaster on the diplomatic front with the Americans coming and saying that Kashmir has been internationalised and others announcing that India is not a safe place to go to. It ledto a total collapse of the tourist trade in India. और भी पैसे चाहते हैं, पता नहीं? क्यों!
The Ministry of Finance is asking for money; the Ministry of Consumer Affairs is asking for money. But what is shocking in this is that I thought there would be a head somewhere in these Demands for a Drought Calamity Fund at this moment, to which the Government would perhaps take money from other Ministries and put in. But there has not been a mention of that here. We are faced with the worst drought of the century. The villages, in many parts of our country, are in the grip of drought without even drinking water and everybody is looking towards the sky for a few drops of rain.टीम जाकर देखेगी, आयेगी लेकिन कब तक? We have seen this happening. There was a debate in the House, assurances were given, teams were sent. हम टीम भेजेंगे, टीम जायेगी, हम असैसमेंट करेंगे, देखेंगे लेकिन कब तक? But migrations have started. The aged, the women, the children and cattle only are left in the villages and the able-bodied persons are moving out of the villages in search of employment to survive. What has been the response of the Government? I would like to say, `please do not play politics with Drought Relief Fund.’ These are human lives, no matter to which State they belong .
Sir, the Chief Minister of my State was here the other day with leaders of all Parties including that of yours from Karnataka. I just would like to mention a few things here. In the year 2000-01, we had a drought and we asked for Rs. 900 crore but we did not get one rupee for Karnataka. Then we asked for Rs. 80 crore because of crop damage due to a hail storm but no funds were released. This year we have asked for Rs. 500 crore but the response has been very lukewarm the other day. We had asked for a sum of Rs. 70.51 crore from the National Calamity Contingency Fund and for the first time we have got, shall I say Thank God, Rs. 30 crore. We have received that amount. These are the responses of the Government to the terrible situation that we are faced with.
Sir, let us take the case of Madhya Pradesh. I am talking particularly of the States with which we have been involved. I am not saying the other States are not important. I am talking about five – six Congress ruled States that are in real trouble. So is the case with Haryana and Punjab. The States of Bihar and Assam are reeling under unprecedented flood situation. People are dying but the godowns of the Government are filled with sixty million tonnes of foodgrains. What is the Government doing with it? Are you going to let them lie there when people are dying because of rain and lack of work? A `food for work’ programme should have been announced by the Prime Minister the moment the intensity of the drought was realised.क्या हो रहा है? Can we play with human misery in this bureaucratic fashion where teams would go, they have to be hosted, looked after and taken around? They would come back then make an assessment and then prepare a report. What is happening?
Sir, I was a Member of the National Drought Management Committee in the 1980s when I was a Minister under the late Rajiv Gandhi. He chaired every meeting. We were on a leash. We had to monitor things everyday. We were given charge of different States. I was given the charge of Rajasthan with two other senior Ministers. We had to check the hand pumps, we had to check the water and we were supposed to go there. A meeting, every week, was held in the Prime Minister’s Office where he chaired it and used to say that this was his report and asked about our reports. There was a system of cross-checking things. Here, the Ministers are sitting. This Government has 79 Ministers. Many of them complain that they do not get files; they do not have rooms to sit and they have no work. Please send them to those areas, let them sit in the drought-hit areas and see how the money is going to be spent and what is going to be done. What is the response of the Government? Believe me, this drought is going to either make or break our economy. How do we manage it? It is not a question of relief. It is a question of drought management as the late Rajiv Gandhi had said. You have to manage it.
SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA (MUMBAI NORTH EAST): The drought situation has already been discussed in this House… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : I know that… (Interruptions) But I did not speak on that day… (Interruptions)
SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : I think, you were present there when the hon. Minister was replying to the debate on the drought situation… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : I am not using my time.… (Interruptions)
SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : I think you were there. I understand your feelings. I support your feelings. But, I think you were there. Were you there? … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : This is a discussion on Demands for Excess Grants. Probably she may ask for financial help.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : That is what I am saying to them. How is it that they have not mentioned even one rupee of special grant to States in these Supplementary Demands? I thought that in response to … (Interruptions)
SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): The National Calamity Relief Fund is there, National Calamity Contingency Fund is there. From that corpus the funds will go. … ()