14.31 hrs.
Title: Discussion on the Haj Committee Bill, 2002. (Bill passed)
MR. CHAIRMAN : The time allotted for this Bill is one hour and I have got a list of six speakers. Therefore, I request all of you to be as brief as possible.
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI OMAR ABDULLAH): Madam Chairman, I will be as brief as possible.
I beg to move:
“That the Bill to establish a Haj Committee of India and State Haj Committees for making arrangements for the pilgrimage of Muslims for Haj, and for matters connected therewith, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be taken into consideration.”
The Haj Committee Bill, 2002 seeks to replace the Haj Committee Act of 1959, which in turn replaced the Port Haj Committee Act of 1932. While the basic ritual of performing Haj, the reasons behind which Muslim men and women of all age groups and of all financial background seek to perform Haj in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, has remained unchanged, the modalities of performing the Haj, the systems that need to be put into place, the means of transport and the number of Hajis travelling from India every year have all undergone a sea-change since the Haj Committee Act 1959 was brought into being. It is keeping this in mind that the Government has sought to bring forward the Haj Committee Bill, 2002 to replace this Haj Committee Act to change a number of fundamental aspects of the Haj Committee Act of 1959 that needed a change.
First and foremost was the centrality of Mumbai in the previous Haj Committee Act. This was natural in 1959 because by and large – not by and large, but all – Hajis left by ship from Bombay. It has over the last few years changed significantly. Last year there was no Haji going by ship. In fact, not only there was no Haji going by ship, but Hajis left by air from ten different points of embarkation from India. This in itself is a major change. The number of Hajis has shot up now to a point where from 24,000 in 1992 the number has gone up to 72,000 this year travelling under the Central Haj Committee.
Prior to 1981, all formalities relating to what is called the ‘Qurrah’, which involved drawing of lots of those who would travel for Haj, were performed by the Central Haj Committee in Mubmai. After 1981, all this work was decentralised to the State Haj Committees.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: Please do not disturb. Let the Minister finish what he is saying. Please sit down. मुम्बई ही रहेगा। आप बैठ जाइए।
SHRI OMAR ABDULLAH: Aside from the fact that it was Bombay when I was there, when all this was being done, it was still Bombay. So, I am talking from a historic perspective.
Now these State Haj Committees have a greater role to play. Keeping all this in mind and the fact that there are a large number of Hajis, we felt that both the Central and the State Haj Committees needed to be reconstituted and their orientation needed to be changed.
And for this, a new legislation needed to be brought forward. At this point, I would like to place on record the appreciation for my Ministry for the work done and Shri M.O.H. Farook, Member of Parliament, for the initial hard work and the ground work that went in with spirit.
I would like the House to take this Bill into consideration.
MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA): Motion moved:
“That the Bill to establish a Haj Committee of India and State Haj Committees for making arrangements for the pilgrimage of Muslims for Haj, and for matters connected therewith, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be taken into consideration.”
SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK (PONDICHERRY): Madam, I rise to welcome the Haj Committee Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already been appreciated by the Minister.
SHRI M.O.H. FAROOK : Thank you, Madam. This is a D-Day for us. In fact, we have been working for this for the last 18-20 years and at last, we are able to get through these things.
A Committee was appointed as early as in 1970s and I was asked to head the Committee. I have gone through all the stages. Representation had been received, educated Muslim people’s views had been looked into,ulemas had been consulted, and a comprehensive Bill had come at that time. I do not know what happened later. To my disappointment, it had been put in cold storage. Afterwards, Shri Salim Sherwani who was the Minister of State called a meeting and then the whole work had been restarted. We did the work. While doing that work, we wanted to see that representations from various parts of the country should be adequately looked into, it should be broad-based and at the same time, more democratic also. With that basis in mind, the Bill has been brought forth. I am thankful to the Minister for having brought forward the Bill. I must tell that this Government has been kind enough to accommodate all the Haj pilgrims who had applied last year and we are able to do some substantial work.
There are a few things which I would like to bring to the notice of the hon. Minister. In page 2, Clause 3, of the Bill, it is said that the Committee shall have its Headquarters at Mumbai. I am not against having the Headquarters at Mumbai. But is it mandatory on their part to have it only in Mumbai? The Minister should reconsider this point. It is not necessary to have it only in Mumbai. It can be anywhere else also. At a later stage, if a contingency comes over there, then you have to go according to the Act and we cannot do anything. So, is it mandatory and is it necessary to have it only in Mumbai?..… (Interruptions) That is one thing that I would like to ask you. We are not against having it in Mumbai..… (Interruptions)
The second point which I want to bring to your notice is this. For the present, it is going on in the correct direction. What is the work of the Haj Committee abroad? In fact, I have given an amendment that “after India”, you may insert “abroad also”. If it is technically difficult for the Minister to do it, then I am not pressing at all. But what I wanted to impress upon the Minister is that this Haj Committee should also have some work to do in Saudi Arabia. With the passing of time, a mere Haj Committee is not going to help. On the other hand, it is a Government-to-Government contact which is being done because they have brought it to such a level that only the Ministers have to look into it. The Minister was kind enough last time to go over there and sign the Haj Agreement for 2001.
Now, the Haj Bill of 2002 has come. Therefore, I feel that it is necessary that it has to be passed. I do not know about the diplomatic immunities that are there. But I personally feel that the Minister should look into this matter. This Haj Committee should do the work which we are doing now in Saudi Arabia because it is necessary.
The Bill is going to be passed today. We support the Bill out and out. We would like to see that this Bill is applied for the coming Haj period because we have already started the work and we are doing the work which is needed to be done. It should be expedited and it has to be done on war footing. Otherwise, it would create difficulties. There are some technical difficulties which we are going to face. You have to make the rules. What I am suggesting is that you prepare the rules immediately. You can keep them ready so that it can be put in the House in the coming Session. State Haj Committees can be organised in this direction. My only plea is that all the activities can be coincided. This Act should be implemented immediately. This is what exactly is my plea to the hon. Minister. The Government should take it up. For that, whatever action is necessary we should try to do it. This is all what I want to say. I congratulate the Minister. I am the happiest person today. I have been working for this for the last eighteen years. Now, this has come true. I must congratulate this Government for having brought this Act.
श्री अली मोहम्मद नायक (अनंतनाग) :मैडम चेयरमैन, मैं हुकूमत को मुबारकबाद देना चाहता हूं कि वह यह बिल इस एवान में लाए। साथ ही इस बात के लिए भी मनिस्टर साहब को मुबारकबाद देना चाहता हूं कि वे यंग हैं जिनके कंधों पर यह भार पड़ा और मुल्क में वह यह हज बिल लाए। मनिस्टर साहब, Civil Aviation मनिस्टर और प्रधान मंत्री जी को भी मुबारकबाद देना चाहता हूं कि इस बार उन्होंने कई जगहों से डायरेक्ट हज फ्लाइट को और बढ़ा दिया। हम ५० सालों से कश्मीर में यह मांग कर रहे थे कि हमें डायरेक्ट हज फ्लाइट मिलनी चाहिए लेकिन वह नहीं मिली। आज कश्मीर से, केरल से, लखनऊ से और बहुत सी जगहों से डायरेक्ट फ्लाइट्स मिलने लगी हैं। मैं इसके लिए दोनों मनिस्टर्स को मुबारकबाद देना चाहता हूं। मैं इस बिल कि इस बात के लिए पुरजोर हिमायत करना चाहता हूं कि इसमें दो-तीन चीजें हैं जिनमें से एक यह है कि हज कमेटी बनी है वह डैमोक्रेटिक तौर पर बनेगी और यह बहुत अच्छी बात है।
दूसरी बात यह है कि पहली बार हज कमेटी में एकाउंटबलिटी आई है। पहले एकाउंटबलिटी क्या थी क्या नहीं थी लेकिन अब पहली बार पार्लियामेंट के सामने भी कमेटी जवाबदेह होगी। पहले जो फाइनेंशियल और दूसरी चीजों के बारे में शिकायतें थीं वह इसमें नहीं रहेंगी। हज कमेटी के फराइज़ में कई चीजें हैं। उनमें से एक यह भी है कि वह हाजियों को ट्रेनिंग देगी कि हज का जो फरीज़ा है उसको किस तरह से अंजाम दिया जाएगा। वह हो भी रहा है लेकिन मेरी इसमें तजवीज़ यह है कि गवर्नमेंट ऑफ इंडिया जिस समय हज होता है उसकी फिल्म बनाये और वह फिल्म स्टेट हज कमेटी में तकसीम की जाए और वह लोगों को सारी फिल्म दिखाये। तब लोगों को समझ आयेगा कि हज किस तरह से होता है।
यह बहुत जरूरी है। मैं सऊदी अरब गया था। मेरा जो अनुभव है और जो कुछ मैंने देखा, लोगों से जो फरियाद की और जो लोगों की ख्वाहिश है, वह यह है कि There should be a film made on the performance of Haj. पांच दिन की हज यात्रा होती है। हिन्दुस्तान की रियासतों में जहां हाजियों को ट्रेनिंग दी जाती है, वहां इसे दिखाया जाए ताकि लोग सही तौर पर हज का फरिजा अदा कर सकें। मैंने पहले भी कहा है कि इस एक्ट को लाने के लिए हुकूमत मुबारकवाद की मुस्तहिक है। यह हुकूमत इस बिल को लेकर आई। इस बिल को लाने की पहले भी बड़ी कोशिश हुई लेकिन यह एक्ट तब तक मुकम्मल नहीं होगा जब तक रूल्स नहीं बनेंगे। अक्सर एक्ट बन जाते हैं लेकिन रूल्स जल्दी जल्दी न बनाये जाते है जिससे एक्ट का मकसद फौत होता है । It is because of rules. Rules are not framed. So, they always remain violated. Therefore, I would request the hon. Minister that he should take it as a personal case to get the rules framed and brought before this House. After that, this Act can be implemented.
With these words, I strongly support this Bill. I would request the House that it should be passed immediately.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (MURSHIDABAD): Respected Madam, I rise to support the Haj Committee Bill. This Bill has been brought forward in place of the first Haj Committee Act of 1959. After 43 years, this Bill has been placed before Parliament. I know about that. This was drafted in 1997. After five years, it has been placed before Parliament. I welcome this Bill because it is better late than never.
Before going into the details of the Bill, I would like to share with the House what type of change has taken place in the total scenario in the last 43 years. First, earlier all pilgrims were going for Haj pilgrimage by sea from the Port of Mumbai. Now, it has been discontinued from 1995. Secondly all the pilgrims are going for Haj travelling by air by chartered flights from different parts of the country. Third, the number of pilgrims has increased rapidly in the last one decade. Already, the hon. Minister has informed that in 2002, it was 72,000 pilgrims. In 1991, it was only 18,299 pilgrims who performed Haj. In 2000, the number of flights operated was 191. So, everybody feels that a lot of pilgrims are going to Jeddah and Mecca to perform their religious work.
In this regard, I would say that a lot of decentralisation work already has taken place in the meantime as far as application and other things are concerned. The hon. Minister has already mentioned here about it. Now, the work has been decentralised. It has been given to the State Haj Committee now. The earlier perspective was that the Ministry had given weightage to Maharashtra, especially to Mumbai from where the pilgrims were going by sea. But the perspective has changed. I have already mentioned about it. Many of my friends have told earlier about it. So, in this changed perspective, I would demand that the Office of the Central Haj Committee should be shifted to Delhi, the National Capital, from Mumbai. It is very much convenient to everybody. Mumbai Office can act as a Regional Office. So, this is my first demand. I would like to bring this fact to the attention of the hon. Minister.
I would be very brief. So far as the management of facilities is concerned, it handles Rs.400 crore every year as part of Pilgrimage Fund. Parliament is not informed about it. The accounts ofcommittee are not placed before Parliament or any other House. It is the public money. So, it is not only my suggestion but also my demand that a provision should be made in the present Bill to the effect that the accounts of committee would be audited and placed before Parliament. At the present moment, none of us knows about the balance sheet and the accounts of committee. We have been talking about handling of different types of funds. We have some news also in this regard. Management of affairs would be transparent, if the committee places its accounts and balance sheet before this august House.