Discussion Regarding Atrocities Against Minorities With … on 24 October, 2008

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Title: Discussion regarding Atrocities Against Minorities With Particular Reference To The Incidents In Orissa And Other States.

 

 

MR. SPEAKER: Now, Mr. Basu Deb Acharia to speak.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER:  I have called your Leader.  If you want to disturb him, it is up to you.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER:  I cannot follow what he is saying.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, for the last four days from 20th of this month, I have been giving notices of Adjournment Motion because we consider the way Christian minorities were butchered in the States of Orissa and Karnataka, it is a fit case… (Interruptions).  I will talk about you also and tell what you did at Azamgarh… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER:  It is a very serious subject.  I agree that it is merited also an Adjournment Motion but for wider discussion I felt let us have a discussion under Rule 193.  You may not agree with me but please carry on with the discussion.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We consider it a fit case for Adjournment Motion.  That is why, everyday I tried to raise it.

MR. SPEAKER:  I also tried to hear what you were raising.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : But I was not allowed.

अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है।   Let us not go into the past.  I have many things to say on this.  You have sufficiently provoked me but I have kept quiet.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : I would like to know as to why such an important issue concerning the minorities of our country cannot be admitted under Adjournment Motion.

MR. SPEAKER:  This is a new attempt that has been developed and a new culture has been developed that go on questioning the Speaker’s ruling.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : I am not questioning your ruling.

MR. SPEAKER:  You are asking me repeatedly why I have not accepted it as an Adjournment Motion.[R3] 

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I am not questioning your ruling.

MR. SPEAKER: Very well. I would request you to speak on the subject.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Sir, the entire nation and the entire world is debating this issue. This issue was discussed outside our country and the entire nation also is debating this issue, but in this Parliament we cannot debate this issue… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is most unfortunate. I will again show you the video clippings of the first, second, third, fourth and fifth days proceedings and find out where could it have been allowed.

   

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA (PANSKURA): Sir, I have a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Sorry, there is no point of order.

          Shri Acharia, you have made your point. You have expressed your annoyance at the Speaker.

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : Sir, at page 31 of the Rule Book, in section (2) it is stated and I quote:

“If objection to leave being granted is taken, the Speaker shall request those Members who are in favour of leave being granted to rise in their places, and if not less than fifty members rise accordingly, the Speaker shall intimate that leave is granted. If less than fifty Members rise, the Speaker shall inform the Member that he has not the leave of the House.”

 

          Sir, under this rule it is imperative that Government makes objections to the debate or discussion under Adjournment Motion. I am not questioning your authority. I am only quoting the Rule Book. The Government must say that they are not in favour of Adjournment Motion and only in that case you can give whatever direction you like.

MR. SPEAKER: You are such a senior Member, but you were in the other House, that is why. Rule 60, sub-rule (1) says, “The Speaker, if he gives consent..” I have not given consent and therefore, that rule does not apply.

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : You are bound by this rule.

MR. SPEAKER: I am not bound to give the consent. What are you talking?

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : You are using your authority to ensure that it is not an Adjournment Motion… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is the most objectionable question you have put. I think, the hon. Deputy-Speaker, may preside over the proceedings of the House.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You have started getting allergic against me.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, no.

MR. SPEAKER: It seems like that. You are deliberately questioning my authority one by one. You are deliberately making allegations against the Chair. If it serves your political purpose, I do not mind. I have tolerated it for five days. There is a limit to everybody’s patience. You all have put me here. I am prepared to go here and now. Let the House tell me, I will go here and now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : There is no politics. I am only quoting the rules… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is going on here? Do not insult the Chair. If you do,  then you are insulting the whole House. Deliberately you are doing it. Either you are deliberately doing it or unknowingly doing it. I am prepared to give that concession — if you want to insult the Chair and raise the dignity of the House, then do it. I am prepared. Hon. Deputy-Speaker may please preside over the proceedings of the House. I would not sit in this Chair.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is the way you are behaving. You have no sense of duty to the House. What is going on in this House? Anything can be said! It is being said that for four days I have not allowed it. At what hour it could have been raised? From 11 o’clock you have started shouting. I have been appealing with folded hands to please allow the matter to be discussed; I will allow all matters to be discussed. Every time you are making allegations against the Speaker. What have I committed?

THE MINISTER OF RAILWAYS (SHRI LALU PRASAD) : Sir, do not take notice of them.

MR. SPEAKER: They are hon. Members of the House. I have to take notice of them.

SHRI LALU PRASAD: Sir, we are with you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you very much. This is becoming a torture.

          Yes, Shri Acharia, I request you to begin your submissions. I myself have said that the matter is important. [R4] 

   

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I was saying that the entire nation is debating what has happened in the State of Orissa, Karnataka and other parts of the country. The report card is very grim.  More than 50 Christians have been killed in the State. 

12.25 hrs              (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

Many of them were set afire and burnt alive, and the dwellings of 4500 Christians were demolished, destroyed and dismantled. More than 50,000 Dalit Christians belonging to tribal and dalit communities, have been rendered shelterless and staying in relief camps.

          Sir, a young nun of 28 years was gang raped in broad daylight.… (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK):  Sir, I take strong objection to this.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  When the turn of your Party comes, you may reply to this point.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :  One Hindu woman was criminally assaulted and set on fire.  She was mistakenly killed thinking that she was a Christian. … (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB :   Sir, he is misleading the House.… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: जब आपको बोलने का मौका मिलेगा, तब आप बोलिए। जब आपकी बोलने की बारी आएगी, तब आप बोलना।  This is not the way.

(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Shri Basudeb Acharia.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :  Sir, Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati was killed by Maoists.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA:  Everyone knows about it and Maoists leader himself has claimed that Maoists have killed Swamiji.  … (Interruptions) They have also explained as to why they killed Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati… (Interruptions) Within an hour of Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati was killed, Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad started organizing themselves with guns, lathis, arms, swords, etc. … (Interruptions)

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

 

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: जब आपकी पार्टी की बारी आएगी, तब आप बोलना। अभी आप आचार्य जी को बोलने दें, जब आपको बोलने का मौका मिलेगा, तब आप बोलना।

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Then they started attacking the Christian community.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions)*…..

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : The houses belonging to the Christian community were set on fire. … (Interruptions) Hundreds and thousands of houses belonging to Christians were torched. Thousands of them were thrown out of their houses. … (Interruptions) Sir, what was the role of the police and administration of the State of Orissa? … (Interruptions)

          Sir, they remained silent spectators. … (Interruptions)  They did nothing to prevent the Hindutva forces from attacking the Christians.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, at this stage I cannot allow you.  You can say whatever you want to say when your turn comes.  I cannot allow you at this stage.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : This reminds us of what happened in the State of Gujarat in 2002. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I will not allow you to speak at this stage.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA:  Like what happened in Gujarat in 2002, this is also a * organized violence against the minorities by the * extremist forces. … (Interruptions)

 

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except Shri Basu Deb Acharia’s speech.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : There is a sustained campaign against Christians in Orissa for decades. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Basu Deb Acharia, I have a small request to make.  Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to me.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to me.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मैडम, आप बैठ जायें।

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : लालू जी, आप बैठ जायें।

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

 

श्री लालू प्रसाद: इन्होंने 356 का विरोध किया। अगर ये 356 का विरोध नहीं करते तो आप यहां नहीं होते।…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions) *…

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मेरी आप लोगों से सबसे रिक्वैस्ट है, इधर भी और इन भाइयों से भी कि जब आपकी बारी आयेगी, आपकी पार्टी का स्पीकर बोलेगा तो जो उन्होंने बोला, उसका जवाब दे दिया् जायेगा।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please listen to me. Please have patience.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: First listen to me.  If there is anything objectionable, I will see it and I will expunge it. इसलिए मेरी आपसे रिक्वैस्ट है कि जब आपकी बारी आएगी, उस वक्त आप जो चाहे बोल लेना, लेकिन यह नहीं कि बोलते वक्त दूसरे को डिस्टर्ब करें।

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  We all should agree to this point.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: These incidents in Orissa have continued for two months.  What happened in Orissa reminds us of what happened in Gujarat in 2002 from 20th February.[MSOffice5] 

It is when 2000 Muslims were killed in Gujarat.  Many of them were burnt alive.  Muslim women were raped and cut into pieces.   * The Government remained silent spectator. … (Interruptions)

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.  

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Why have they become so restless?  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.  Will you please sit down?  

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Shri Basu Deb Acharia.

(Interruptions )* …

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :*The same thing happened in the State of Orissa.  They want to make Orissa a second laboratory of Hindutva. … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : देव जी, आप बैठ जाइए।

…( व्यवधान)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आपकी बात रिकार्ड में नहीं जा रही है।  

 (Interruptions)* …

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.  Nothing is going on record. 

(Interruptions)* …

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : सलीम जी, आप इतने सीनियर मेंबर हैं। 

(Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मिस्त्री जी, आपकी कसर रह गयी थी। 

(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions)* …

12.38 hrs

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Fourteen of the Clock.

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

14.04 hrs

The Lok Sabha re-assembled  at four minutes past Fourteen of the Clock.

 

(Mr. Deputy-Speaker  in the Chair)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Shri Basu Deb Acharia, you may continue your speech.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA):  Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, before the House was adjourned, I was saying that what happened in States like Orissa, Karnataka and other States were most atrocious and they were spontaneous. [R6] 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Ten minutes are there at your disposal.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, it was a pre-planned attack on Christian minorities. Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati was murdered on 23rd August, 2008. Prior to that, last year, in the last week of December, just on the eve of Christmas Day, entire Kandhmal district was burning. In the last week of December last year, when churches were being attacked, what was the role of the State Government? … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  मैंने कहा है कि जब आपकी पार्टी का बोलने का समय आयेगा तब आपको जो बोलना है, बोल दीजिए।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Basu Deb Acharia.

(Interruptions)* …

 

* Not recorded.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When churches were being attacked, all the police force was withdrawn and Christian minorities were helpless. The Hindutva goons were given a free hand. … (Interruptions) The police force was called away … (Interruptions) to help the celebrations in the Capital. … (Interruptions) When Christians were attacked and churches were demolished, a statement came from… *. He said:

“You are just burning tyres. How many Isai houses and churches have been burnt? Without kranti, there can be no shanti. … * has done kranti in Gujarat. That is the reason why shanti is there.”

 

SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order. Is he a Member of the House? How can he quote him? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will see.

SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): Sir, both the persons whom Shri Basu Deb Acharia has just now mentioned are not Members of this House. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Both the names are expunged.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बार-बार बीच में उठकर बोल रहे हैं। जब आपकी पार्टी से कोई सदस्य बोलेगा तब क्या ये लोग उन्हें बोलने के लिए एलाऊ करेंगे?

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have expunged both the names. Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :   मैंने उसे एक्सपंज कर दिया है।

…( व्यवधान)

 

* Not recorded.

 

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, the attack on Christian minority was not sporadic. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to me. Whosoever is not present in the House, if those names have been mentioned, they are expunged.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Sir, the tribals have their own religion. … (Interruptions) They have got their own religion in India. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have expunged the names of those persons who are not present in the House.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Those who are not following the Hindu religion are being forced to convert.[R7] 

[r8] We have not forgotten the gruesome incident that took place in the State of Orissa in the district of Mayurbhanj in Manoharpur in 1999… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not disturb like this.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When Grahm Stains… (Interruptions) What crime Grahm Stains had committed? Sir, for several years, he was engaged in the welfare of … (Interruptions) From morning to evening, he was giving treatment to leprosy patients… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठिए। जब वह बैठ जाते हैं, तो आप खड़े हो जाते हैं, यह क्या है? वह चुप हो जाते हैं, तो आप बोलने लगते हैं।  आप बैठ जाइए।

…( व्यवधान)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : One day, after performing his duties… (Interruptions) he took his two children and he was sleeping in the jeep… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मेहताब जी, बड़ी देर के बाद हाउस में थोड़ी शांति हुई है।

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When he was sleeping in the jeep, suddenly in the night, Bajrang Dal activists, under the leadership of Dara Singh, burnt them alive… (Interruptions) Can BJP disown that Dara Singh does not belong to Bajrang Dal? … (Interruptions) With mashals the jeep was put on fire… (Interruptions) Grahm Stains and his two children were burnt alive… (Interruptions) It is quite surprising, in 1999, NDA was in power at the Centre and the Defence Minister of that period, Shri George Fernandes said that it was an international conspiracy.  He found international conspiracy when such incident took place at Manoharpur in 1999.

          Sir, National Minority Commission visited Orissa.  What is the recommendation of National Minority Commission?  It says:

“Christians are still forced to live in an atmosphere of extreme insecurity under threat that if they do not convert to Hinduism their lives would not be safe and their properties would be forfeited.” 

 

          What is now being done?  Those who are living in the relief camps… (Interruptions)

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Who was in power when Grahm Stains was killed?… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We might be in power… (Interruptions) but they were at the Centre.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Satpathy, please sit down now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : BJP has not condemned the incident ever… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It is more than sufficient now.  Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

 

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: This is not the subject to discuss, Mr. Satpathy.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : It further states:

“The community has suffered immense damage to their property, their places of worship and above all to their psyche in this macabre drama that has played out twice in the space of less than a year.”

 

          When the first incident took place in 2007 in the month of December, for quite one month hundreds of Churches were demolished and desecrated. [r9] 

Christians were killed, murdered. 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You are repeating the same thing.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : In spite of that incident, again in the month of August, serious incidents have taken place in the same district in the State of Orissa.  This reflects very poorly on a secular multi-ethnic country like India with a proud tradition of not merely tolerating diverse cultures and beliefs within the body politic but actively encouraging their growth and development.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Silence please.  Do not disturb him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Unless steps are taken immediately to restore normalcy and instil a measure of confidence and security amongst the Christians, we will not only irreparably damage the pluralistic society of which Orissa is so rightly proud but also we leave the door open for lumpen extremist elements to occupy space that should rightly be occupied by the State and civil society groups.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Acharia ji, please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, allow me to speak.  I spoke for only 10 minutes.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आपको दस मिनट ही देने थे।

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, you cannot control them.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am controlling.  I am trying my best to control them.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: They are interrupting for the last 15 minutes. You could not control them.  Now you are asking me to conclude.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: I am now in Orissa.  I will have to go to Karnataka, another State… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am requesting to you and I am requesting to him also.  I am requesting all of you. Please sit down. He is going to conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप बैठ जाएं, आपके लीडर बोल रहे हैं। Dr. Sujan Chakraborty, your leader is speaking; he is on his legs. 

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप तो बैठ जाएं, आपके लीडर बोल रहे हैं।

…( व्यवधान)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: उन्हें तो मैं चुप कराऊंगा ही, लेकिन आप तो बैठ जाएं। आपकी पार्टी के लीडर बोल रहे हैं।

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : There is crime against the dalit section of our community.  I know there is some problem in regard to reservation among the two communities. One community is dalit Christians.  They are asking for reservation. We also demand that the dalit Christians should get the facility of reservation.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : A communal party, rather a fascist party, is running the Government.  That is why the Government is reluctant to take… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: वह भी बैठेंगे। मेरी आपसे रिक्वेस्ट है कि आप थोड़ा पेशेंस रखें। He is going to conclude his speech. उनके बाद आपकी बारी आएगी।

…( व्यवधान)[R10]  

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : देखिये, अगर इस तरह से आप व्यवहार करेंगे, तो मुझे हाउस को एडजर्न करना पड़ेगा।

DR. SUJAN CHAKRABORTY (JADAVPUR): Sir, kindly tell them not to disturb him.  … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आपके लीडर बोल रहे हैं, आप बैठ जाइये।

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  आप उनसे भी ज्यादा रौला डाल रहे हैं।

…( व्यवधान)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : राम कृपाल जी, आप बैठ जाइये।

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, when the BJP Government came to power for the first time in the State of Karnataka, the Hindutva forces, Bajrang Dal had organized crimes and started attacking the Christians. … (Interruptions)

श्री तथागत सत्पथी  :  उपाध्यक्ष जी, वे आपको भी नहीं मान रहे हैं, वे आपको भी माइनोरिटी बोल रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :  The Christian churches and the Christian institutions were demolished and desecrated in the State of Karnataka. 

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Christians were killed. … (Interruptions) Sir, you cannot control them. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  I am trying my best to control to control them.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :  How can I speak?  Sir, you please bring the House to order. 

          We are debating such an important issue concerning the minority and they are not allowing me to speak. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  They have allowed you to speak, and I have given you sufficient time to speak.  Please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, the President of Bajrang Dal himself admitted that under his leadership, several churches were destroyed.  In spite of that, the State Government failed to take any action against Bajrang Dal.    … (Interruptions) The State Government Police had beaten up the Christian women.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: Sir, how can I conclude now?  I have just come to Karnataka. … (Interruptions)  The attacks on Christians and their institutions appear to have been well planned in Karnataka, and the State Government of Karnataka was sleeping like the Gujarat Government … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please conclude within two or three minutes.

… (Interruptions)

 MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is going to conclude within two or three minutes.  Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : The Hindutva forces want to convert Karnataka also a laboratory of Hindutva as they did in Gujarat.  These are the observations of the NCM Team:

“The attacks on Christians and their institutions appear to have been well planned.  Given that earlier attacks had occurred in August, 2008, the State Government had sufficient time to prepare for renewed attacks that took place on September 14, 2008. In spite of this, such attacks had not taken place if State would have taken adequate precautions.”

 

          When one incident took place in the month of August in Karnataka, the State Government failed to take any action. [H11] 

          Again on 14th September, 2008, attacks on Christian minority took place.  There were attempts by the Minorities Commission to ascertain the number of conversions recorded in the States in one year, particularly in the 100 days of the present Government of Karnataka with no success… (Interruptions)

          Although allegations of large-scale conversions were made, evidence of not even a single conversion could be found.  Instead there is a general acknowledgement of the contribution of Christians in the fields of education, medicine and the work done by their organisations for support of downtrodden people, especially widows and orphans.

          Sir, the President of Bajrang Dal himself  had admitted but no action was taken against him. Subsequently, when the National Minorities Commission visited the place, it asked and recommended to take action against him. He was arrested but the next day he was released on bail whereas till today, a large number of Christian innocent people are languishing in jail.

          What is being done for the last several years in different parts of our country is just to divide the country… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, no running commentaries, please.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, in the name of terrorism, in Uttar Pradesh, in Andhra Pradesh and other parts of the country, people are being arrested… (Interruptions)

 

 

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Basu Deb Acharia.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, in Adilabad District, six members of one family were burnt to death.  Several such incidents are taking place in   a number of States… (Interruptions)  They are telling me to refer to Assam.  Now, I am referring about Assam.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, you have already taken more than 30 minutes.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : But how much time they have taken by interrupting me?… (Interruptions)

          In Assam, the problem is concerning land.  There was a dispute between Bodos and Muslims, wherein one death occurred and hundreds of people rendered shelter-less, who are now residing in the Relief Camp.  In spite of the information  that the problem would recur,  the State Government of Assam failed to do what it was required to do.

          Sir, what is required today is the concerted action.  If we do not take concerted action and if the communal forces are allowed to rise, our country would not remain united.  We have witnessed the communal riots in Mumbai in 1992-93 where thousands of people were killed.  We have also witnessed communal riots after the Babri Masjid was demolished by the BJP hoodlums… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, I am calling the name of the next speaker.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA :  Sir, I am just concluding. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Member, he is going to conclude now.  Let me conclude.

 

* Not recorded.

 

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, what is required from the Central Government?[r12] 

          The National Integration Council meeting was called, and nothing came out of this National Integration Council. An advisory note was sent but there was no direction under Article 355. Sir, there is a demand to impose Article 356 against the State Government.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Are you going to conclude or not?

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : From the Left Parties, we are against the imposition of Article 356.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you. Now, I would request Mr. Bwiswmuthiary.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Let me conclude. I am initiating. You should give me more time.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It does not mean that you should take the whole time.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : How much time they have taken? You are always disturbing me. So, I will not speak.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: All right, thank you. If you do not want to speak, I would request Mr. S.K. Bwiswmuthiary to speak for one minute.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA: I have not concluded. What are you doing?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You said I am not going to speak. You have said that.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : You are intervening. You are not allowing me to conclude.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: All right, please conclude. You have to conclude within one minute.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, only once we supported and we had asked for imposition of Article 356 when Babri Masjid was demolished. It is  in respect of the three State Governments, which aided and assisted and directly helped in regard to demolition of Babri Masjid, we demanded imposition of Article 356

against these three Governments, and the three Governments were removed. They went to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court also upheld it.

 It was upheld by the Supreme Court.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you. Now, I would request Shri Bwiswmuthiary.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, there is a need for a strong action from the Central Government. They are the violators of the Constitution. Bajrang Dal is the violator of the Constitution. You can see that whenever there is a terrorist activity or bomb blast, they blame one community. Now, it has been exposed in Malegaon, Gujarat and in Manipur.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Now, nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Swain, now nothing is going on record.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bwiswmuthiary, you speak for only one minute.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing is going on record. Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to Mr. Bwiswmuthiary. You speak for only one minute.

 

 

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

 

SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY (KOKRAJHAR): Hon. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, with great humility and humble submission, I would like to make the following statement:-

          Sir, on 20th October, while making my sincere efforts to raise a matter of serious public importance that pertains to the occurrence of very unfortunate, unwanted terrible and gory incidents that took place in Udalguri district within Bodoland and in another district called Darrang in Assam on the 3rd and 4th October, 2008, on the floor of the House, under the compulsion of the most crucial

 and terrible ground situation mounting in the two affected districts and the unending traumatic tragedies of the affected people, I had been compelled to go even to the Well of the House near the hon. Speaker with holistic mood and mind in order to help obtain permission from the hon. Chair to raise my matter.

Under the aforementioned circumstances, whatsoever unfortunate situation had happened on that very moment of that particular day, I do regret for the same. 

 

 

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Now I request Shri Kharabela Swain to speak.

 

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Thank you, Sir. You heard the very long and prolonged speech made by the leader of the CPI(M) in this House Shri Basu Deb Acharia. The main thrust of his speech was that the people, the mob led by the Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad murdered, they killed the Christians in the district of Kandhamal, they burnt the churches and they made them to just flee to the forests and they raped the nuns. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please do not interrupt. Please listen to the hon. Member.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : These were the major allegations made by Mr. Basu Deb Acharia.

SHRI T.K. HAMZA (MANJERI) : They were not allegations. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : He said also that the State Government did not take any action. Against whom did he make this allegation? He made this allegation against one of the most affable, mild and honest Chief Ministers of India Mr. Naveen Patnaik. He made this allegation against him. … (Interruptions)

SHRI T.K. HAMZA (MANJERI): Nothing wrong. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please do not interrupt. Please do not disturb.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I want to understand one thing. … (Interruptions) I understand his problem. … (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : What is wrong with you? Please listen to him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, allow me to handle them. I will handle them.

          I understand the difficulty of Mr. Basu Deb Acharia. The elections are coming. He is now addressing to his constituency in Kerala, not even in West Bengal. It is because whenever anything happens in Orissa, there is a ripple effect in Kerala. … (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Only the speech of Shri Kharabela Swain will be recorded.

(Interruptions) *…

 SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : The ripple effect is made by the CPI (M). … (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI SANDEEP DIKSHIT (EAST DELHI): Sir, what is this? … (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Please sit down. Nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions)* …

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER : Nothing is going on record. Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I also say that the elections are coming. Mr. Dikshit, whose mother is the Chief Minister of Delhi, was not in the House when the debate started. All of a sudden he just enters into the House and he wants to make a statement because he wants to tell the people that he is such a secular person. … (Interruptions) He was not at all present in the House when the debate took place. … (Interruptions) Sir, he understands the compulsions of the electoral politics. 

 

* Not recorded.

 

          Sir, whenever there is something happening in Orissa there will be ripple effect in Kerala and the effect will be made by the CPI(M). What campaign will they make? It is that – ‘Oh! Christians, you just see; you have been murdered by the Sangh Pariwar elsewhere in India; in Orissa they are raping your women, they are burning your churches, they are burning your houses. So, we are the Party who are in favour of you; only vote for CPI(M).’ That is the only reason for which he is making this case. … (Interruptions)

          Sir, now the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, a very highly respected Member of this House since long is here. I have very high regards for him.  [k13] 

          He visited Kandhmal area. After visiting the Kandhmal area, what was his comment? He said that it is basically an ethnic conflict. He never said that it is a Hindu-Christian fight. He never said that it is Bajrang Dal people who went and attacked Christians. He never said that – I thank him for that – because he really understood that. We read it from the newspapers. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Dikshit, hon. Home Minister is on his legs.

… (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Sir, please do not put words into my mouth. … (Interruptions) Now you say whatever you have to say, but do not say that I said something. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN: Sir, I will ask the hon. Home Minister, who is present here, whether he said that it was a Hindu-Christian conflict. He will reply to it. … (Interruptions) So, why did he say so? … (Interruptions)

          Now, I will come to the second point that the Government did not do anything. Already about 1,000 persons have been arrested. There is no space in the three jails which are there in the district. Now the newspapers are reporting that the arrested people are kept and stuffed in the jails like sardines. This is the particular language that has been written in the newspapers. There is no space in jails of Phulbani, Udaigiri and Baliguda. So, now the Government is sending the people, who have been arrested, to Digpahandi special jail in the adjacent district. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE (IDUKKI): Now you agree that something happened. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Yes, something happened. I am coming to what happened. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Let him speak.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Shri Swain. Please sit down now.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, if somebody does not want to listen, that is a different matter because the general tendency of many people is that they do not want to listen the truth; they want to listen what they like. Probably he likes that Bajrang Dal is bad and Vishwa Hindu Parishad is bad. That is what he likes to listen.  Shri Geroge, if you want to listen the truth, you listen. Then, you can reply. You listen to what I say. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do not interrupt when he is speaking. Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I will present documentary evidence. Let me tell what has been reported in the Bhubaneswar edition of The Times of India dated 19th October. By no stretch of imagination, you can say that this is a communal paper. What is the banner heading given in it? It says “Fear of Arrest Forces Hindu Tribals to Flee”. So, Shri George will definitely understand whether

 

* Not recorded.

 

 it is … (Interruptions) I will give it to you. I will lay it on the Table of the House. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : This is written in October, after two months. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Now, I will come to the conclusion. There is another banner heading in The Times of India – “Orissa is safe : Puri Italian Tells Friends”. That is being given in The Times of India. Here, a lady from Italy, who herself is a Christian, is writing letters to her friends in Italy saying that ‘Orissa is totally safe. Why don’t you come here?’ This is the news item in The Times of India.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Further, it is written here that : “The Kandhmal Christians demand separate district.” This is also a headline mentioned here. Why do these local newspapers, that is, the local editions print this item at Bhubaneswar, and print a separate item in Delhi edition? I am asking this from the media. All these items are being published in the Bhubaneswar edition of the Times of India, and not being published in Delhi. It is because if they publish lies day-in-and-day-out, then nobody will read this newspaper in Orissa. Hence, they publish the truth. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : They are afraid of you. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : Mr. Swain, let us send an All-Party Parliamentary Delegation to Orissa, and let us verify for ourselves as to what has happened there. … (Interruptions) Why should we go by the newspaper reports? … (Interruptions) We all will go, and we will see for ourselves as to what has

 

* Not recorded.

 

happened there. … (Interruptions) Thereafter, we will come to a final conclusion. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : If nothing has happened there, then we will support your argument. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Mr. Swain.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I will come to the point. Why was it not even described as a Hindu-Christian riot by even the hon. Home Minister of this country? Why was it told that it is an ethnic conflict? It is because there are two major caste groups or ethnic groups in Kandhmal. One is the tribals, and they are called Kandhas. They constitute about 52 per cent of the population. The second is the Scheduled Caste, and they are called the Panas in Oriya. It is a coincidence that between 70 per cent and 80 per cent of the Scheduled Castes or Panas have been converted to Christianity, and only five per cent of the tribals, that is, the Kandhas have also been converted. The Kandhas are mostly Hindus and the tribals are Hindus, and the Scheduled Castes are mostly Christians. This is the thing.

          Nearly an year ago, the Scheduled Castes, that is, the Panas — who have been converted to Christianity — filed a case in the Supreme Court and they demanded that just like the Gujjars in Rajasthan they should also be given the Scheduled Tribes status. All are very well aware as to what all happened in Rajasthan. When the Gujjars wanted that they should be given Scheduled Tribes status, the Meenas, who were already the tribals, objected to it. The same thing is happening in Kandhmal. In Kandhmal, the Panas are demanding that they should

 

* Not recorded.

be given the Scheduled Tribes status, and the Kandhas are objecting to it. Why are they objecting to it? … (Interruptions) It is because of the present day rule. What is the present day rule? The rule is that a non-tribal cannot buy a tribal’s land, but a tribal can buy another tribal’s land. Therefore, the Kandhas or the tribals are thinking that if the Panas or the Scheduled Castes become tribals, then they will buy all the land that belongs to the tribals. This is why they do not want that the Scheduled Castes should be given the status of Scheduled Tribes. … (Interruptions)

          They have two other allegations. The Pana Christians are educationally better off; financially better off; and socially better off by virtue of their better education and by virtue of their better contacts with the Government machinery and they have appropriated most of the land belonging to the tribals.[r14] 

The pattas of the land which the tribals have been cultivating for hundreds of years have gone to the Scheduled Castes and it was done without their knowledge. That is their objection.

          The second objection is that the Scheduled Castes, who have been converted to Christianity and who are better educated, by manipulation, they have got false certificates as tribals, and they have got Government jobs.

          Sir, I will not name one person. He is now a Member of the Rajya Sabha and he is from the Congress Party. He is a Pana Christian, but he has managed to get a false certificate as a tribal and got into the IAS. He is now a Member of the Rajya Sabha. Now, the CBI is investigating the case against him. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : That is the main reason for which the Kandas or the tribals are totally annoyed with the Panas. They think that it is the Pana Christians who are manipulating everything to deprive the STs of their land and of their jobs. That is major reason. It is not a conflict between the Hindus and the Christians.

          Sir, they are making all sorts of allegations against the Bajrang Dal. I will just give them the figure. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Nothing should be recorded, except the speech of Mr. Kharabela Swain.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I will just give them the figures. There are four MLAs from that district and one MP. That hon. MP is sitting here. The hon. MP from that district does not belong to Bajrang Dal; he does not belong to BJP; and he belongs to Biju Janata Dal. You can say that we are communal, but you cannot say the same thing about Mr. Naveen Patnaik or his Party. He is the MP from that locality. Out of four MLAs, two are from Biju Janata Dal, one is from the Congress and one is from the BJP. If you think that Vishwa Hindu Parishad is so powerful there, if Bajrang Dal is so powerful there, why is there only one BJP MLA from that district? It is because Bajrang Dal is never powerful there; Vishwa Hindu Parishad is never powerful there; and we do not have that much of an existence there. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to him and do not make any noise.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : We do not have any role to play in the conflict. Since they like to make allegations against us, and it is a fashion in this country to say everything against the Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad, BJP, Sangh Parivar, and RSS, and they say so because it is very sweet to their ears. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : What about the news item that has appeared yesterday in The Indian Express?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, you should not disturb like this. At least, I do not expect it from you. You are one of the senior-most hon. Members and you should not disturb others like this.

 

* Not recorded.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, the Bharatiya Janata Party is not against the Christians. The Bharatiya Janata Party perceives Christians of the world as a highly civilized, educated and sophisticated people. We are also not, like the Communists, paranoid about America or the West. We are not an anti-American party; we are not an anti-Western party. We want to fight against world terrorism along with the United States of America as a friend. We want it. We are not against the Christians. Why should we fight against the Christians who constitute only two or three per cent in this country? Please try to bear with us. We are not doing it.

The Bharatiya Janata Party or the Sangh Parivar is actually not against anybody. If there is an ethnic conflict, what we can do about it? Now, if you arrest more and more tribals, adivasis, they will become angry. I told you that the fear of arrest forced the Hindu tribals to flee. I will now read out certain portions from this.… (Interruptions)[r15] 

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : Sir, he is yielding.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I am not yielding, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is going to conclude now.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I will conclude in another five, six minutes, Sir.

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : Mr. Swain, can you yield for a moment?

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I will listen to you afterwards. I am not yielding, Sir. Why is he speaking? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  He is not yielding. Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, I will now read out from The Times of India of 13th October this year. This was a report by Mr. Anand Sundas, who is not an Oriya, who was deputed from the headquarters to go to Kandhamal to report on

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

 

this. What does he report? The headline reads, “Kandhamal Crisis – A Mesh of Conflicting Interests”. It says:

“Just that now, with modernization and competitive consumerism that it brings, the Kondhs don’t like it when the Panas, relatively better off because of their Christian education, carry better cellphones and live in roomier houses. “They have no business calling themselves scheduled caste after converting to Christianity,” said Maheshwar Pradhan, a Kondh. “Eventually, aren’t they taking away from what is meant for us?” ”

 

          That is what the tribals are saying. The tribals are saying that it is the Pana Christians who manipulated everything; taken everything which belonged to them. What can we do? Why do you just fight with us? You have exploited the tribals of this country. The tribals are against you. And you are making allegations against BJP. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No, this is not the time to disturb. Please sit down.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Now even after ten years, Mr. Basudeb Acharia made an allegation, he played the old worn out record of 1999, of Graham Steins’s murder. He also made an allegation that nuns were raped. Sir, probably he does not know, I have preserved the newspaper cuttings of ten years back. This appeared in The Asian Age, whose Editor was Mr. M.J. Akbar then. At that time also a nun made an allegation that she was raped in a running car. I will just read out two, three sentences from the Medical Report. The Medical Report was prepared by Dr. M.K. Mohanti, Associate Professor and Head of Department of the Department of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology. He says, “Considering the findings with hymen, with the vaginal inspection of the victim lady, it could be inferred that the victim lady has experienced sex previous to the alleged occurrence.” I need not say anything more. … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM (CALCUTTA – NORTH EAST): Sir, how can you allow the Parliament to be hijacked by … *  This is too much. He cannot defend the rapists. These people are mentally sick.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGHLY): Sir, he is quoting from an unauthenticated document.

MD. SALIM : These are …*

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: If there is anything objectionable, I will expunge it.

MD. SALIM : You cannot allow him to read from ten-year old newspapers to defend rapists.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: If there is anything objectionable, I will expunge it.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : They made this allegation. When it was not proved, they vanished. They said the entire Hindu samaj, the entire Oriyas are rapists. Now they are … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM ; Who said that? You do not represent the Hindu community. You do not represent Oriya  culture.[KMR16]  … (Interruptions)

15.00 hrs.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  What is the problem with you?

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Dixit, this is not the way.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN :  I am coming to the second, the nun rape case, the present nun  rape case. It is the report submitted to the Supreme Court by the Government of Orissa.  Let me read out two or three sentences.  In the unfortunate incident of a rape of a nun, eight persons have been arrested; three have been arrested from Kerala – Orissa Crime Branch Team went to Kerala and arrested three people from there; and another six persons from Orissa. A team of lady

 

* Not recorded.

 

police officers headed by IG rank officer, Mrs. G. Radhika, IPS, visited New Delhi  to offer protection to the nun for her return to her home State and has also requested for her cooperation in identifying the accused.  The nun has  however declined to cooperate with the team.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN :   They went to the Supreme Court and demanded… … (Interruptions) And the Supreme Court refused. They went to the Supreme Court. … (Interruptions)  They said that the case should go to CBI for investigation. … (Interruptions)  It is only two days before, the Supreme Court refused. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, this is not the way.  Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri George, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Nothing  will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE):   The case of nun was sent to the Forensic Laboratory for examination. The Forensic Laboratory has given a report, which said that there is no sign of rape available on the dress of the nun.  And the nun is unwilling to come and cooperate.  The Father  who made this allegation and filed FIR in the police station, went away; one of their colleagues went to Kerala and requested him to come  back; cooperate with us and identify the culprit.  He said, I am not coming. … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM :  You are proud of Dara Singh but you are ashamed of Graham Stein. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:   Md. Salim, no.  This is an allegation.

… (Interruptions)

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. George, sit down. 

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : What do we do?  The Government is going to provide all protection.  The Government is going on its own out of the way, sending police officers to Kerala; sending police officers to Delhi requesting the accuser to come and identify.  Do you know a funny thing which the Government has done?  Out of this nine people arrested there are, two father-son duos, one brother-brother duo. What does it mean? That means father and son raped the nun together; brother and brother have also raped together.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon.  Members, please  sit down.  This is not the way.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Swain.

(Interruptions)* …

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Shri Swain, please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is going to conclude now.  Shri Swain, conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN :  Now, he made the allegation and he vanished.  The Prime Minister of this country has said that it is a national shame.  I just demand that if the rape case on this nun is not proved, I demand a national apology from this type of people who made this allegation against the entire Hindu community. [r17] 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Only Shri Swain’s speech will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

 

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Swain, Please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.  Nothing is going on record.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Thousands and thousands of years back there was a Hindu whose name was Jaichand.  He invited Mohammad Ghauri.  These people are such Hindus by nature.  For getting… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.  I now call Shri Madhusudan Mistry to speak.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : That is why I humbly appeal … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is now going to make an appeal.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I make an appeal to the Christian community of this country, we are not against them.  If anybody… (Interruptions)

MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What are you doing?

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : If any individual, anybody has committed a mistake … (Interruptions) we make an apology. We will help you in every possible way. Bajrang Dal, VHP or Sangh Pariwar as a whole is not against you.  We do not subscribe to any crime that has been committed on you… (Interruptions)  believe us. Do not believe them.… (Interruptions) With this appeal I would like to conclude.  .

                                                                                               

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions)* …

DR. SUJAN CHAKRABORTY (JADAVPUR): Sir, since he has given a long speech for more than 40 minutes I would like to seek two clarifications from him.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing, except Shri Madhusudan Mistry, is going on record.

(Interruptions)* …

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: मिस्त्री जी, आप कंटीन्यू करें।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mistryji, nothing is going on record. You may continue.

(Interruptions)* …

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Swain, nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions)* …

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: स्वांई जी, अब आप बैठ जायें।  

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mistryji, you are wasting your time by not starting your speech.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY (SABARKANTHA): Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप बैठ जाइये। मधुसूदन जी, आप शुरू करें। 

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Francis George and Shri Swain, you can discuss it outside the House.[R18] 

 

* Not recorded.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen Mr. Mistry.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : Sir, I am thankful to you for giving me this opportunity to take part in the discussion on this subject.  I feel a little bit pity because the discussion has so far been more around the incidents which have taken place in Karnataka and Orissa.  Such incidents have happened in other parts of India as well.  It is also a pity that such incidents have not been stopping. In fact, they are increasing month after month and year after year which is a little bit shocking.… (Interruptions).  आप सुन लीजिए, जब आपकी टर्न आए, तब बोलिएगा। It is also a pity that such incidents are increasing and they do not take a moment to stop.  This draws our attention to the fact that the States seem to have failed in exercising their duties which are enshrined in the Constitution.  One of them is to protect the lives and properties of their own citizens.  But those who are at the helm of affairs and are in power in those respective States, I feel it is a failure on their part.  I just cannot understand that they could not control violence within one district for days together.  The goons and other people can attack anybody in a way they like, whenever they like, at the time that they choose and the State Government agencies have simply become the mute spectators.  So, they are not doing the duty which is enshrined in the Constitution.  It is a complete failure of the State.… (Interruptions).  Mr. Mahtab hold on.  I am not yielding.  You can speak when your turn comes.  I would not disturb you. What is this?… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : जब आपकी बारी आएगी, तब वे अगर गलत कह रहे हों, तो आप जवाब दे दीजिएगा।

…( व्यवधान)

 

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : Sir, I am saying that all those States have failed to protect the lives and properties of their citizens.  It is a violation of the article of the Constitution. These things are on the increase. Such incidents are happening in State after State.  Such things had happened in 2002.  I am asking Mr. Swain when his Prime Minister described the Gujarat riots as a blot on the nation और बोला था कि मैं दुनिया को जाकर क्या मुंह दिखाऊंगा? Are you going to tender apology to this country for that?  What is wrong if this Prime Minister has said  that it is a national shame if such things happen in any part of the country?  Why do you not tell your own Government that they could not control violence for days together in a small district?  Now I come to another issue.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not provoke other Members.  It is not in your own interest.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : You please stop for heaven’s sake.  I know he is disturbed.  He is disturbing ever since this debate has started.  He has never  done this before.  But ever since this discussion has started, every time Mr. Satpathy gets up and tries to disturb or derail the thinking or the ideas of the speaker… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : Sir, let me come to the second point.  Most of the States, be it Gujarat or Rajasthan or Karnataka or Orissa, the State Police… (Interruptions).  Sir, when his turn comes, he can speak.… (Interruptions) जब आपकी टर्न आए, तब बोलिएगा। …( व्यवधान)[R19] 

Since the law and order is a State subject under the Constitution, most of the State Governments are using the police forces the way they like. A few days back there was a blast in my constituency in Moraso town where the inhabitants are 100 per cent Muslims.  A boy was killed and nine people were injured. Again, there were blasts in Ahmedabad where bombs were hung on trees; there were blasts in Surat where the bombs were hung on the frame of the doors in Surat. To my dismay, what I found was that after 25 to 30 days after the blasts took place, the police called around 200 people from amongst the Minority community alone, even including people who resided in that area in 1972, for interrogation. They did not arrest anyone. That is where the complacency of the State Government lies; that is where the complacency of the Home Minister and the Chief Minister lies. They all are in loggerheads with the police and other establishments. They did not arrest anyone. They wanted to prove that they were SIMI activists or they were activists from other organisations. That is what is happening not only in our State but everywhere in this country. The law and order situation is worsening day by day because every State where Minorities have been attacked, the Chief Ministers of those States have used the police force at their disposal to achieve political gains in those respective States. It is because the General Elections are approaching. The police is being used more and more to polarise the society… (Interruptions) You may speak when your turn comes… (Interruptions)

          Sir, what I am saying is that there was no point in such interrogation from people of the locality which was inhabited by 100 per cent Muslim population and where the bombs were planted. It is just three days back the news has come that it was the Hindu Jagran Manch … (Interruptions) It was their support… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing, except the speech of Shri Madhusudan Mistry, will go on record.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : I am talking facts. I am not like your Chief Minister and Home Minister. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not make a provocative speech.

          Nothing will be recorded.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : People were taken to the DGP, the DSP-in-Charge. The Home Minister was present. I was there on that

 

* Not recorded.

 night. It was told to the police as to what they should be speaking before the Media. The police was at loggerheads with the State Administration. The Minister concerned directed the authorities to give a particular kind of a version to the public and to the Press thereby accusing and branding the Minority community in my own town. Fortunately, I am very thankful to people of both communities, the Hindus and the Muslims, of that town that a riot did not take place. It happened in Malegoan, but it did not happen in Morasa because both these communities were together. They did not fall a pray to the nefarious designs of the Gujarat Government. That was their design to win the forthcoming elections to the Parliament… (Interruptions)

          Sir, I strongly feel that wherever, in the name of controlling the law and order situation, the States are using the police for their own gains; where the party in power is using the police for their own gain has to stop somewhere. It has to have some kind of a control. I am talking of the investigative agencies. The working of the entire investigative agency, including the Central investigative agencies, needs to be put under a scanner. It needs a total over-hauling. Over the years it has been observed that whenever there is a bomb blast, they would say that they have arrested the mastermind and then another bomb blast takes place and every time innocent people are being killed, property being looted and people have been subjected to all kinds of discrimination. This is too much for this country. [R20]  We just cannot tolerate this kind of a situation in this country.  I demand that law and order should not remain with the State.  It should be brought under the Concurrent List and if we will have to amend the Constitution, then we should be prepared to amend the Constitution and I would be very happy if all my friends join hands with us.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:   Shri Kharventhan, please sit down.  A Member of your own Party is on his legs and you are disturbing him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY :  My friend and your Chief Minister was saying that the Centre has not given sanction to GCOCA. Sir, they are talking about MCOCA of Maharashtra and GCOCA of Gujarat.  My dear friend or the Chief Minister does not know that the two Acts are separate.  There are separate provisions.  This provision in GCOCA is so draconian that it takes away freedom of each and everybody. Besides that, it is more to shut the dissenting voice against the Chief Minister. You want to arrest those people who in fact raise their voices against the Chief Minister.  This entire Act has been designed in such a way that that the person who has been arrested has to prove that he is innocent and not the police who has arrested him.  The police need not prove that the person is guilty. That is where the whole thing is lying.  I demand that we should move an amendment to the Constitution. I request the Central Government to move an amendment in our Constitution.  Let there be support from all the parties who are preaching communal harmony. My friend was saying that they have nothing to do with it.  On the one side, they are saying that they have nothing against the Christians and on the other side, they are attacking them. … (Interruptions) This is intolerable.  … (Interruptions) Let there be consensus in the House that law and order should be brought under the Concurrent List.  Let the Central Government have the liberty to intervene where the State deliberately fails to control such violence against any minority community anywhere in the country.   I know the position and I was just looking at the heads of my Communist friends also. … (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGHLY):  No. … (Interruptions)

 SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY :   Nobody would like to give law and order to the Centre. Nobody wants to give up the control on the law and order It is really a pity that those who are preaching communal harmony do not agree with this.   If my friends are innocent, why cannot they agree with this? Why can we not say that we can be independent in this, and we can send the forces there? Why the Central Government has to get the permission of the State Government to send Central Forces to the State?   I remember very well that in 2002 we went to meet the then Prime Minister and the Home Minister who were there.  We requested them in a meeting to deploy Army in Gujarat and hand over the city to them.   They said that, “We will deploy.  We do not hand over.”  Everyday, more than hundred people were killed in 2002 riots in Gujarat. And they were mute spectators at that time.  When people were arrested under TADA and POTA, the Supreme Court has given a verdict that it was a wrong arrest, those people were wrongly arrested and those people should be released.  That was the Report of the Review Committee.  I am asking the Chief Minister of Gujarat about the number of years lost when these people had been kept behind the bars.  All these innocent people belong to minority community. Why had the police arrested those people who were not involved in any kind of crime? What was the reason?  Is it simply because they were Muslims?  Is it simply they were given an order by the State Government?  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Nothing should be recorded.  Anything said without my permission should not go on record.

(Interruptions) … *

 SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : Sir, innocent people should not spend their precious life behind bars simply because of the whims of the police establishment itself and simply because the State Government wants to prove that they are champions of only one section of the society a[U21] nd not of the other. 

They claim that they protect the interests of five crores of people.  But they are adopting a divisive approach.  I demand that against the States which have failed to curtain or failed to arrest the violence against the minorities in this country, we have to have some kind of provision in the Constitution, like articles 355 and 356, by which they should be asked to report these incidents immediately to the Union Government here and if they fail to do so they should not be there at

 

* Not recorded.

the first place and they should be dismissed.  I also demand  that necessary Constitutional Amendment should be brought in and very stringent measures be taken by the Government in order to protect the minorities throughout the country.  Thank you.

SHRI P.C. THOMAS (MUVATTUPUZHA): Will it be possible for us to lay the speeches on the Table of the House?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Yes, you can lay it on the Table of the House.

          Those hon. Members who want to lay their written speeches can do so.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI V. RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): I have a very serious point of order or objection.  At 3:30 we have to take up Private Members’ Business.  This is the only day allotted for the PrivateMembers.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We will take up Private Members’ Business at 3:30 p.m.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव (सम्भल)  : महोदय, हमारे साथी श्री बसुदेव आचार्य ने जिस विषय पर चर्चा आरंभ की है, वह विषय हमारी देश की एकता और अखण्डता के लिए चिन्ता का विषय है। भारत के संविधान ने माइनारिटीज के लिए भी फण्डामेंटल राइट्स के अन्तर्गत ही उनकी धार्मिक स्वतंत्रता के साथ ही उनकी भाषा और संस्कृति के संरक्षण का मौलिक अधिकार प्रदान किया है। लेकिन हिन्दुस्तान के आजाद होने के बाद हम जैसे-जैसे आगे बढ़े, साप्रदायिक शक्तियां ही ताकतवर होती चली गयीं। शायद यही वजह थी कि फण्डामेंटल राइट्स में इन अधिकारों की गारंटी होने के बाद भी 42वें संविधान संशोधन के जरिए भारतीय संविधान की प्रस्तावना में सेकुलर शब्द को जोड़ा गया ताकि यह स्थिति और भी स्पष्ट हो सके कि हमारी व्यवस्था धर्मनिरपेक्ष है। लेकिन इसके बाद भी देश में ऐसी घटनाएं घट रही हैं जिससे अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय अपने आप को असुरक्षित महसूस कर रहा है। बहुसंख्यक समुदाय की जिम्मेदारी होती है कि अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय की रक्षा करे। डा0लोहिया ने कहा था कि जहां पर हिन्दू बहुमत में हैं और किसी अल्पसंख्यक की जान खतरे में हो, तो बहुसंख्यक हिन्दू अपनी जान देकर भी अल्पसंख्यक की रक्षा करें और अगर कहीं पर मुसलमान बहुमत में हैं और वहां पर हिन्दू अल्पमत में हों, तो बहुसंख्यक मुसलमान अपनी जान देकर भी हिन्दू की जान की रक्षा करें।…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, it is 3:30, we have to take up Private Members’ Business.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : What will happen to this Discussion?  We have been waiting.  … (Interruptions) I understand your point. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We will have to take up Private Members’ Business at 3:30 p.m.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय   इस बारे में सदन की क्या राय है?

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव (झंझारपुर)  : महोदय, प्राइवेट मेंबर्स बिजनेस को आगे बढ़ाया जाए और इस चर्चा को कांटिन्यु किया जाए।

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): We would like this Discussion to be continued.  Private Members’ Business can be taken up on some other day as it is done in Rajya Sabha. … (Interruptions)  We can take it up on any other day.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : सदन में मेजारिटी की राय है कि इस चर्चा को ही कांटिन्यु रखा जाए।[MSOffice22] 

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Sir, today is the Private Members’ Business.  It should be taken up . … (Interruptions)

श्री पी.एस. गढ़वी (कच्छ):  उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, प्राइवेट मेम्बर्स बिजनेस कब लिया जाएगा?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now I have announced my decision.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): Sir, I have to make a submission.  They will try to bring a legislation after the conclusion of this Discussion under Rule 193.  In the Agenda which is distributed today, there is no Government Business after the Private Members’ Business. So, no Government Business can be brought in after this discussion.  Their usual practice is to bring in the Government Business at untimely hour and that too not included in the Agenda. … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: मुझे हाउस की राय लेने दीजिए। आप बैठ जाएं।

MD. SALIM : Sir, there should not be any Government Business after this discussion. … (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : They have two Ordinances which have to be replaced.  The Government can reissue the Ordinances.  … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: राधाकृष्णन जी, आप बैठ जाएं।

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Now, they have issued the Ordinances on 13th October, 2008 and after that they have called the House to meet on 17th October, 2008.    … (Interruptions) So, after issuing notice, it is quite improper to issue Ordinances. In the instant case, the Lok Sabha is still alive without being prorogued.  The House is kept alive for three months and it will be like that till December, 2008.  … (Interruptions)

श्री लक्ष्मण सिंह (राजगढ़): प्राइवेट मेम्बर्स बिजनेस में आज ट्राइबल्स पर चर्चा होनी है।…( व्यवधान)

यह सरकार ट्राइबल्स के बारे में चिंता नहीं करते…( व्यवधान)

वित्त मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री तथा संसदीय कार्य मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (श्री पवन कुमार बंसल): आपको इतनी ज्यादा चिंता क्यों हो रही है…( व्यवधान)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : This continuation of the House alive has deprived the rights of the Members to have a regular Session, viz., Monsoon Session and Winter Session, at the proper time. … (Interruptions) Their intention is to prevent a substantive motion coming against them. … (Interruptions) They want to continue as the continuation of the Confidence Motion Session without being prorogued.  … (Interruptions) They will usually prorogue the Rajya Sabha. … (Interruptions) It is unprecedented.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Let me take the sense of the House.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI LAKSHMAN SINGH : Why are we not discussing the Private Members’ Business. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU: Sir, today is the Private Members’ Business.  So, first we will complete the Private Members’ Business till 6 o’clock.  Then, we will continue this discussion till 8 o’ clock. … (Interruptions)

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL: Sir, on very many occasions we have done it in the past.  .… (Interruptions)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव (पटना): उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यह विषय बहुत महत्वपूर्ण है। आज सारा देश जल रहा है इसलिए इस पर चर्चा कराई जाए।

MR. DEPUTY-SPEKER: Please sit down.    The Minister of Home Affairs wants to say something.  Please listen to him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN: Sir, it is really shameful. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, we are discussing a very important issue. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.  He is on his legs.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, my submission is that this is a very important issue and this has relevance to the unity and integrity of our country.    If they have their say and express their views, it will be very useful for the Government, for the people and all of us to decide as to how we should conduct in this matter.[a23] 

Moreover, this is not an issue which is brought before the House by the Government. This is a Private Member’s issue. Shri Basu Deb Acharia is not a Member of the Government. He is a Private Member.… (Interruptions) So, in a way, it is the Private Member’s business. My submission is that we do understand that the Private Members do have a right to express their views on the Resolutions or can move the Bills. But this can be done on any other day as we have been doing it. Now, this issue that we are discussing is very important. If we are discussing it, my submission is that it should not be discontinued. It should be continued. The Private Members’ Business can be taken up any other day fixed by

yourself. The procedure can be decided by your goodself or by the House. It appears that the consensus is that we should continue with this discussion.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you.  Has anyone any objection to this?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, we will continue the discussion under Rule 193.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : प्राइवेट मैम्बर विजनैस नैक्स्ट टाइम जब मिलेंगे, उसी दिन शाम को लिया जाएगा।

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGHLY):  That is all right. Today, let us complete the Discussion under Rule 193. But beyond that, there should not be any Government business.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  That is all right.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : नैक्स्ट टाइम जब हम मिलेंगे, शाम को दूसरे बिजनैस के बजाए प्राइवेट मैम्बर बिजनैस लिया जाएगा। आज यह डिस्कशन अंडर रूल 193 में कान्टिन्यू रखेंगे।

SHRI B. VINOD KUMAR ( HANAMKONDA): Sir, today, the Private Members’ Resolution is there for discussion.… (Interruptions)

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU: Sir, will the Agenda for the Private Members’ Business be the same for the next day? Please clarify this. … (Interruptions) Will the same Agenda continue or not?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  It will continue. The same subject will continue.

          Now, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav to continue his speech.

प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव  :  यह महत्वपूर्ण विषय है देश की एकता और अखंडता से जुड़ा हुआ है। जब माननीय सदस्य बोल रहे थे तब भी लगातार ऑब्ट्रेक्शन रहा लेकिन बाद में यह चर्चा ठीक तरीके से प्रारम्भ हो सकी। उड़ीसा के कंधमाल में जो कुछ हुआ या देश के कई हिस्सों में हुआ वह योजनाबद्ध तरीके से हमेशा किया गया। हमारे गुजरात के सम्माननीय साथी यहां बैठे हुए हैं जब गुजरात में डांग इलाके में चर्चों को जलाया जा रहा था तो मौके पर जिला हैडक्वार्टर पर और कई जगह मैं गया था और लोगों से बात की। तब भी यह स्पष्ट था कि यह योजनाबद्ध तरीके से किया गया है। जब-जब इस देश में चुनाव आने को होते हैं तब-तब साप्रदायिक शक्तियां उन्माद पैदा करके उससे लाभान्वित होने के लिए माइनोरिटीज को तंग करने और उनका उत्पीड़न करने का काम करती हैं। कंधमाल में जो कुछ हुआ वह सारी दुनिया ने देखा। मुझे आश्चर्य हुआ जब बीजेपी के एक माननीय सदस्य बोल रहे थे तो ऐसा लग रहा था कि वहां पर कुछ हुआ ही नहीं। लोगों को मैं कोट करना चाहता हूं कि जब उस नन ने मना कर दिया कि मैं वापस नहीं जाऊंगी तो क्यों मना कर दिया? वहां जाने की किसी की हिम्मत भी नहीं है क्योंकि स्टेट गवर्नमेंट वहां बहनों को प्रोटैक्शन नहीं दे सकती। क्रिश्चियन माइनोरिटीज वहां घर छोड़ने के लिए विवश हैं और वहां गांव के गांव जला दिये जाते हैं 100-100 घर एक साथ जला दिये जाते हैं, लोगों को जिंदा जला दिया जाता है। ग्राहम-स्टेन को भी तो जिंदा जला दिया गया था और यही लोग दारासिंह चौहान की वकालत कर रहे थे और कह रहे थे कि हमें उस पर गर्व है। [R24] 

          महोदय, जब गुजरात में ऐसी घटना हुई, तब हमारे तत्कालिक प्रधानमंत्री को वहां के मुख्यमंत्री को कहना पड़ा कि उन्होंने राजधर्म का पालन नहीं किया। मैं इनसे पूछना चाहता हूं कि उन्होंने कहा था या नहीं कहा था? उसका क्या अर्थ था? राजधर्म का पालन बीजेडी-लेड उड़ीसा की सरकार भी नहीं कर रही है, मुझे अफसोस के साथ यह कहना पड़ रहा है। यह देश बंट जाएगा, टूट जाएगा, जहां आप ऐसा माहौल पैदा करके सत्ता प्राप्त करना चाहते हैं। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि आप रूल किस पर करोगे? हमारे देश की विशेषता ही यह रही है कि यह बहुत बड़ा देश है। यूनिटी इन डायवर्सिटी हमारे देश की विशेषता रही है। छोटे-छोटे देश टूट गए हैं। अगर इस तरह की बातें बढ़ेंगीं, तो यूरोप में बाल्कन कंट्रीज़ और जो छोटे-छोटे देश हैं, उनके टुकड़े-टुकड़े हो गए, फिर हमारा तो बहुत बड़ा देश है।

15.41 hrs.                 (Shri Giridhar Gamang in the Chair)

          इस मनोवृत्ति को, कि हम सत्ता पर कब्जा पाने के लिए अल्पसंख्यकों के खिलाफ मैजोरिटी को भड़काने का काम करें, ऐसा मत कीजिए। यह देश के हित में नहीं है। जब आप लोग संसद सदस्य बन कर पहले दिन शपथ ग्रहण करते हैं, तो उसमें भी देश की एकता और अखंडता को अक्षुण्ण रखने की शपथ लेते हैं। शपथ इसलिए लेते हैं कि कम से कम यहां हम देश के लिए इस तरह का काम करने की कोशिश करेंगे कि देश में जो कमजोर हैं, कम संख्या में हैं, उनके मन में यह आतंक न हो कि मेरी कोई सुनने वाला नहीं है, मेरी कोई रक्षा करने वाला नहीं है।

          मैं आपके माध्यम से माननीय गृह मंत्री जी को कहना चाहता हूं कि जो गुजरात में हुआ है और हो रहा है, अगर वह नहीं रुकता है, तो जो सख्त से सख्त कदम उठाया जा सकता है, चाहे आर्टिकल 356 का प्रयोग हो, उसकी भी जरूरत पड़े, तो उसका भी प्रयोग किया जाना चाहिए। मैं आपके माध्यम से कहना चाहूंगा कि राज्य सरकार के यहां प्रतिनिधि बैठे हुए हैं, दोषी लोगों के खिलाफ सख्त से सख्त कार्यवाही की जानी चाहिए, क्योंकि इस देश का अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय अपने आपको असुरक्षित महसूस कर रहा है। कहीं न कहीं किसी न किसी रूप में अगर उनका कोई नाम आता है, तो उन्हें प्रताड़ित करने की कोशिश की जाती है। कर्नाटक में भी यह हुआ है। अल्पसंख्यकों को आपने जो मौलिक अधिकार दिए हैं, उनकी रक्षा करने का दायित्व हम सबका है। राज्य सूची से कनकरेन्ट लिस्ट में लाने का हम समर्थन नहीं कर सकते हैं, लेकिन राज्य सरकारों को ऐसी परिस्थितियों में केंद्र सरकार से अधिकार प्राप्त हैं। हमारा सिस्टम क्वासी-फेडरल है।  कभी-कभी ऐसा लगता है कि जब राज्य सरकार के पास ज्यादा पॉवर्स आ जाती हैं, तो यूनिटरी गवर्नमेंट जैसा स्वरूप भी हो जाता है। केंद्र को तो हमेशा अधिकार है कि अगर कोई भी राज्य सरकार संविधान के अनुसार काम नहीं कर रही है, तो उसके खिलाफ कार्यवाही होनी चाहिए। कंधमाल में जो हो रहा है, उस बारे में सरकार को सख्त निर्णय लेने की जरूरत है।

          इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि जिस उद्देश्य से श्री बसुदेव आचार्य जी ने यह जो चर्चा प्रारम्भ की थी, उसका मैं समर्थन करता हूं।

 

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): Sir, I am thanking for giving me this opportunity to participate on the discussion initiated by our Senior Member Shri Basu Deb Acharya under Rule 193 about the attack on minorities in our country.

From the date of inception, the BJP and their alliance partners are continuously opposing the minorities in the country and attacking them also. Particularly Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Bajrang Dal and Hindu Jagarana Samukhya are aiming to remove all minorities from this country. Recent attack against Christians in Orissa is also one of the worst incidents happened in this country. In Kandhmal nearly 36 people died, 315 villages affected, 15,000 people were forced to live in relief camps, 3269 houses were burnt and 154 churches were damaged. Attacks on Christians are continuing till date.

I want to bring certain facts about the incidents happened in this country. From 2001 to 2007 in Madhya Pradesh, 14 occurrences took place, 6 were killed, Gujarat 12 occurrences took place, 54 persons were killed, Rajasthan 7 occurrences took place and 3 were killed, and in Uttar Pradesh 16 occurrences were held 15 were killed. Very recently, Karnataka State also joined in this row. In Mangalore Town, Dakshina Kannada, Bangalore and Udupi District nearly 14 Churches were attacked.

For the past several years, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and its associates have targeted Christians in Orissa. They are in a minority, they are having only 2.44% of the State’s total population. We cannot forget the incident happened during 1999 when Bajrang Dal activists burnt to death the Australian Missionary Graham Strains and his sons. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad is claiming that the

 

* Speech was laid on the Table.

Christian Missionaries are forcibly converting Hindus to Christianity. There is no evidence to it. It is totally false. “Freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, participate and propagate religion” is guaranteed as Fundamental right in Article 25 of the Indian Constitution. It can’t be opposed by VHP people and others. Furthermore, we can’t forget the service rendered by Christian Missionary in this country in the field of Education and Health. Irish Priests and Nuns visited Hilly and remote areas and educated the downtrodden children and treated leprosy patients. At any point of time, they have not tried to convert any Hindu to Christianity. Now they are targeted by these communal forces.

The present Governments in Orissa, Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh are not able to handle this issue efficiently and properly. They are not able to control these illegal activities. Our Hon. Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh has described this incident as a “shame on the nation”. We cannot ignore these incidents as it is an attack not only on Christians but it is also an attack on whole Indian society. We must take steps to protect all the people in this country.

With these words, I am concluding my speech.

 

                                                                                                         

SHRI P.C. THOMAS (MUVATTUPUZHA): Sir, Violence on Christian Community in Kandhamal District erupted during December 2007 just prior to the Christmas day. While some villagers were preparing for next day’s celebrations by decorating the church premises some people who came armed attacked them. But this seems to be a planned one, because in more than ten locations there were attacks at the same time. The attack continued for three days consecutively. About one hundred churches or prayer halls were destroyed or damaged, hundreds of houses of Christians were burnt, several convents, and other institutions of Christians were destroyed or damaged. Five people died and hundred of Christians were injured. The State Government failed to take proper timely action against the assailants and miscreants. The poor Christians were thereafter living under threat and fear. The Assailants were some fanatic Hindu group. They continued to intimidate Christians and were forcing them to convert to Hindu religion.

          I had visited several places of attack in January 2008 and had a direct study of the incidents which occurred in December 2007.

          The Central Government also failed to protect the minorities and to assure them confidence.

          The recent events started on 23-8-2008 when Vishwa Hindu Parishad Leader Swamy Laxmanandnada Saraswathi, a Hindu religious leader was brutally killed by some unknown persons who came to his residence with guns and shot him to death.

          Though a naxal group has publically declared that they killed Swamiji, the authorities could not arrest them or take proper action on this brutal murder.

          Some extremist Hindu leaders accused that Christians were responsible for killing Swamiji. They took lead to thrash unprecedented violence on Christians.

 

* Speech was laid on the Table.

About seventy Christians are said to have been brutally killed in the onslaught on Christians from 23-8-2008 till now. The situation is still not normal. Churches, prayer halls, houses and institutions of Christians have been destroyed and set to fire in hundreds. More than 40,000 christians had to flee into forests and other areas. Many of them now in relief camps.

          When I visited a relief camp on October 1 2008, I was told by one Ravindra Pradhan of Rupa Gaon in Khandamal District, that his brother Roshan Lal(35) was burnt alive on 24.8.08 in his house, though he was a physically disabled person and could not run away. As police did not arrest the assailants though their names were given, Sri Ravindra Pradhan sent a registered complaint to the local police station at Thikabali. It was returned with an endorsement ‘refused to accept’. This clearly shows the neglect of the police and gross inaction of the State Government.

          A nun was raped. Many girls were raped. Priests, nuns and pastors of Christian churches were brutally manhandled.

          The assailants are not being dealt with as per law. Many local Hindu extremists and leaders were not arrested and when crimes were continuously pursued by them on Chrisitans.

          This cannot be considered as a law and order problem alone. It is a massacre of minorities and onslaught of human rights.

          The Central Government has also failed to protect minorities. The attack has spread to other places and to some other States also. In Karnataka the repeat has taken place in a horrifying manner where also churches and chrisitans have been brutally attacked. In Madhya Pradesh also it has happened to some extent.

          Minorities Commission should be given more powers so that they can act. But though they have visited and tried to act, their recommendations are only taken as suggestions.

          The Hon’ble Prime Minister should visit Orissa. A team from members of Parliament should also be sent. The Government of India should act on the recommendations of Human Rights Commission and Minorities Commission. If the State Government is unable to maintain law and order, the Centre should act under Article 356 of the Constitution.

          Peace efforts also should take place in Khandamla District. The affected people should be compensated. The condition of the poor Christians in government relief camps are deplorable. The Government of India and the State Government of Orissa should allow N.G.Os to help their brethren in Khandamal riots. Rehabilitation of the affected, mending of churches and institutions and building confidence for the victims are to be done.

          The violence on minorities has brought shame to our nation. World Leaders including the Pope(Vatican) have condemned the violence. Our Hon’ble Prime Minister who went to France for talks with French authorities on nuclear treaty had to face unpleasant questions from the President of France who is also Chairman of European Council (Body of European Union). India, with long history of good culture, tolerance and respect for all religions has been put to a low stature. Hindu religion which is known for tolerance and respect for other religions is not to be blamed.

          It is only some extremists and their groups who are maligning the name of India by the inhuman manner in which Christians, a religion minority of India is being attacked and killed.

          The Government of India should rise to the occasion and save the honour of this great nation.

 

                                                                                                         

 

 

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव (झंझारपुर)  : महोदय, सदन में अत्यंत ही संवेदनशील, दुखद और दुर्भाग्यपूर्ण घटनाएं विगत दिनों में उड़ीसा के कंधमाल जिले में, कर्नाटक के मंगलौर में, मध्यप्रदेश के रतलाम में अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय पर हुई हैं, उन पर सदन में चर्चा हो रही है। खास कर ईसाई धर्मस्थलों और यहां तक कि ईसाई महिलाओं पर भी हमला किया गया है। गिरिजाघरों पर भी सुनियोजित ढंग से एक योजनाबद्ध तरीके से हमला किया गया है, इससे मैं समझता हूं कि एक ऐसी मानसिकता पैदा की जाती है कि जब-जब चुनाव का समय आता है, तब-तब ऐसा किया जाता है।

          महोदय, आपको याद होगा कि पिछली बार चुनाव के समय में गुजरात को एक्सपेरिमेंटल स्थल बनाया गया था। वहां अल्पसंख्यकों पर हमला करके दो हजार अल्पसंख्यकों को मारा गया।[I25]  वर्ष 2002 में खास तौर से मुसलमानों को टार्गेट बनाकर मारा गया था और यह घटना गुजरात में घटी थी। जब लोकसभा का चुनाव आसन्न है और पांच राज्यों में विधान सभा चुनाव होने वाला है, ऐसे वक्त को चुना जाता है। आखिर इस तरह के समय को चुनने के पीछे कोई न कोई योजना है, कोई न कोई प्लानिंग है। सैंकड़ों घरों को आग लगा देना, यहां तक कि जिंदा जला देना, इस तरह का जो निरंतर हमला हो रहा है, यह राष्ट्रीय चिंता का विषय है।

          महोदय, कट्टरपंथ विचारधारा के बारे में प्रोफेसर साहब ने ठीक कहा है। यह संविधान के प्रिएंबल में है और धर्मनिरपेक्ष हमारा संविधान है। संविधान के रहते हुए इस तरह की मानसिकता को बढ़ावा देकर हमले किए जाते हैं। कुछ लोग कहते हैं और उड़ीसा में स्वामी लक्ष्मानंद की चर्चा हुई लेकिन इसकी निष्पक्ष जांच करें, जो हत्याएं हुई हैं उसके दोषी को सजा दें। पूरी कम्युनिटी, खास तौर से ईसाई अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय को टार्गेट बनाना कहां का जस्टिफिकेशन है? कहां का न्याय है? निश्चित रूप से कम्युनल वायरस वाला दिमाग और कट्टपंथी विचारधारा आतंकवाद का स्वरूप है।  इसाइयों को टार्गेट बनाकर हमला करना, यह नए किस्म गतिविधि है, मैं ऐसा मानता हूं। इसलिए मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि यह मानसिकता जो कट्टरपंथियों की है, यह आतंकी मानिसकता है और इसके चलते सांप्रदायिक सद्भाव को बिगाड़ा गया। दो दिन तक लगातार सांप्रदायिक सद्भाव को बिगाड़ने का काम हुआ। जिस देश में सांप्रदायिक सद्भाव बिगाड़ा जाएगा उस देश में आंतरिक सुरक्षा महफूज नहीं रह सकती है और यहां सांप्रदायिक सद्भाव को पूरी तरह से बिगाड़ा गया। जब सांप्रदायिक सद्भाव बिगड़ेगा तो आंतरिक सुरक्षा पर भी खतरा होगा और राष्ट्रीय एकता, अखंडता पर भी आघात होगा। इस तरह से राष्ट्रीय एकता और अखंडता पर आघात पहुंचाने का काम किया गया इसलिए ऐसे तत्वों को चिह्नित करना चाहिए। हमारे कुछ मित्र बोल  रहे थे कि हम इसके पक्ष में हैं, बीजेपी मित्र बोल रहे थे हम ईसाइयों के पक्ष में हैं। चाल, चरित्र और चेहरा सब इनका है। मैं

 

साफ और स्पष्ट रूप से प्रचार करना चाहता हूं कि … *

कम्युनल वायरस वाले आदमी की प्रेरणा कुछ राज्यों में पड़ रही है, जहां एनडीए की सरकार है। चाहे उड़ीसा में हो, चाहे मध्य प्रदेश में हो…( व्यवधान)

प्रो. रासा सिंह रावत (अजमेर): ये मुख्यमंत्री का नाम ले रहे हैं।

सभापति महोदय : नाम हटा देंगे।

…( व्यवधान)

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : मैं मानता हूं ये मुख्यमंत्री हैं और सांप्रदायिक मानसिकता के नहीं हैं। मुझे यह कहने में कोई हिचक नहीं है कि ये जिस जनता परिवार से आए हैं, भले ही एनडीए में रहे हों लेकिन स्वाभाविक रूप से कम्युनल नहीं हो सकते, मैं ऐसा मानता हूं। उड़ीसा की मजबूरी है क्योंकि उनका समर्थन लेना है, जो कम्युनल वायरस वाली पार्टी है, जो कट्टरपंथी विचार वाली पार्टी है, उनके समर्थन के चलते उड़ीसा सरकार विवश हो गई। जब तक कार्रवाई शुरू की गई तब तक खेल खराब हो गया। …( व्यवधान) आप चुप रहिए। सोशलिस्ट लोगों को धैर्य नहीं रहता है। आप भी सोशलिस्ट परिवार से आए हैं,…( व्यवधान)

श्री सैयद शाहनवाज़ हुसैन (भागलपुर): अब तो आप में भी घुस गया है।

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : देश में सोशलिस्ट हैं और अब आपके दल में भी घुस गया है। सोशलिस्ट आदमी जहां भी रहेगा वह अपनी विचारधारा के बारे में कहेगा।

श्री सैयद शाहनवाज़ हुसैन : आप भी तो तब हमारे साथ थे।

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव :  आपकी कब्र इसी सदन में 2002 में खुद गई थी जब मैंने वोट किया था तब गुजरात में दंगा हुआ था। क्या आपको याद नहीं है तब हम अलग हो गए थे। एनडीए से उसी दिन घोषणा हुई थी। आप सदन का रिकॉर्ड देखिए। जब कत्ल करेंगे, गुजरात में 2000 मुसलामानों का कत्ल किया गया और इसका जवाब इनके पास नहीं था, तब तत्कालीन प्रधानमंत्री जी ने कहा था कि हम दुनिया के सामने क्या मुंह दिखाएंगे? उनकी नसीहत का पालन तत्कालीन मुख्यमंत्री नरेंद्र मोदी को करना था। आपको इतिहास याद नहीं है और एनडीए के बारे में बोलते हैं। विचारधारा वाला आदमी अपने विचार को नहीं बदल सकता है। यह चलता रहा है, जनता परिवार मिला दोगे तो कब्जा हो जाएगा। दिमाग में कम्युनल वायरस घुस गया है।[r26] 

* Not recorded.

             

 

 

इस कम्युनल वायरस के कारण ये घटनाएं घट रही हैं। इस कम्युनल वायरस को दूर करने के लिए हम केन्द्र सरकार से अर्ज करते हैं कि उसे हस्तक्षेप करना चाहिए और जो पहले से बनी हुई धारा 355 है, उसमें अमैंडमैन्ट करना चाहिए। अमैन्डमैन्ट करने का मतलब यह है कि यदि किसी राज्य में कम्युनल वायरस वाले लोग जिले को टारगेट बनाकर अल्पसंख्यक लोगों पर हमला करें, वहां दंगा फैलायें, साप्रयादिक दंगा करते हों तो केन्द्र सरकार को बिना राज्य की अनुमति लिये हुए वहां डायरेक्ट पहुंचने का अधिकार होना चाहिए। केन्द्र सरकार तो सेक्युलर संविधान की रक्षा करने की गारंटी है। आम लोगों की, नागरिकों की जान-माल की रक्षा का दायित्व केवल राज्य सरकार की कानून-व्यवस्था का वि­ाय कहकर नहीं छोड़ना चाहिए। इसमें राज्य सरकार की जिम्मेदारी है। हमारे प्रोफेसर कनकरेन्ट लिस्ट की बात कह रहे थे। कानून व्यवस्था राज्य सरकार की जिम्मेदारी है। लेकिन यदि राज्य सरकार विफल हो जाए तो क्या उस समय केन्द्र सरकार चुपचाप टुकुर-टुकर देखती रहेगी ? क्या केन्द्र सरकार केवल बयान देगी? केन्द्र सरकार को धारा 355 में अमैन्डमैन्ट लाना हो तो यह संसद अमैन्डमैन्ट करने के लिए सक्षम है। ऐसे कम्युनल वायरस को जब तक मिटाया नहीं जायेगा, तब तक हम सेक्युलर संविधान की रक्षा कैसे कर सकते हैं? क्या भारतीय संविधान के खिलाफ आचरण करने का किसी कट्टरपंथी को अधिकार हो गया ? क्या इस देश में कट्टरपंथी विचारधारा को कम्युनल वायरस फैलाने का राइट है? यह बजरंग दल क्या है ? विश्व हिन्दू परि­ाद क्या है? वह इन्हीं का वर्ग संगठन है। ये लोग उसे रखे रहते हैं और जब-जब चुनाव का वक्त आता है, सामाजिक आधार पर और धर्म के आधार पर देश का बंटवारा करके इंसानों के दिलों को तोड़कर वोट का मशीन बना लिये हैं। ये लोग वोट के लिए जो वर्ग संगठन खड़ा किये हुए हैं, वे बजरंग दल और विश्व हिन्दू परि­ाद हैं। निश्चित रूप से जो घटनाक्रम आया है और जो 90 प्रतिशत गिरफ्तारियां हुई हैं, वे बजरंग दल और विहिप के लोग हैं। इसलिए यह स्प­ट हो गया है कि इस तरह के संगठन को बैन करना चाहिए। इसीलिए मैं कह रहा था कि इसमें केन्द्र सरकार को हस्तक्षेप करना चाहिए और बजरंग दल और विश्व हिन्दू परि­ाद पर बैन लगाना चाहिए। एक माननीय सदस्य हिन्दू की बात कर रहे थे। हमारे एक मित्र विद्वान आदमी हैं, काफी स्टडी करते हैं, काफी सीनियर भी हैं। स्वाईं जी, आपका भी तीन-चार बार हो गया है। लेकिन जो घटना हुई है, आप ईमानदारी से स्वीकार कर लीजिए। उड़ीसा, कर्नाटक, मध्य प्रदेश का पक्ष क्यों लेते हैं? जनजातियों, शेडय़ूल्ड कास्ट्स और शेडय़ूल्ड ट्राइब्स में झगड़ा है। इन्होंने यह बात इतनी बढ़िया बुद्धि से निकाली है। …( व्यवधान)

श्री इलियास आज़मी (शाहाबाद) : आंध्र प्रदेश और महारा­ट्र में भी हुआ है।

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव  : चाहे जहां भी हुआ हो, हमारा उसमें यह कहना नहीं है कि आप कहां का नाम ले रहे हो। जहां भी हो, चाहे कर्नाटक, उड़ीसा, मध्य प्रदेश और आंध्र प्रदेश में जहां भी हो, अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय ईसाईयों पर कट्टरपंथियों द्वारा जो निरन्तर भारी हमला हुआ है, यह निश्चित रूप से रा­ट्रीय चिंता का वि­षय है और इस पर केन्द्र सरकार को नियंत्रण करना चाहिए। मैं केन्द्र सरकार द्वारा नियंत्रण की बात इसलिए कर रहा हूं क्योंकि बजरंग दल और विहिप द्वारा खुलेआम मानवाधिकार का उल्लंघन किया गया है, साथ ही साप्रदायिक सद्भाव को खुलेआम बिगाड़ा गया और रा­ट्रीय एकता को कमजोर करने का पूरा प्रयास किया गया। मैं समझता हूं कि इस तरह की गतिविधियों को आतंकवादी गतिविधियों में शुमार करना चाहिए, चिह्नित करना चाहिए, रेखांकित करना चाहिए। एक तरह के कम्युनल वायरस के आधार पर ये आतंकवादी गतिविधियां हैं और जब ये आतंकवादी गतिविधियां हैं तो निश्चित रूप से भारतीय संविधान की धज्जी उड़ाने की इजाजत हिंदुस्तान में किसी नागरिक को नहीं होनी चाहिए। क्योंकि हमारे देश में धर्म के आधार पर, अपनी पूजा-पाठ करने या उसमें आस्था रखने की स्वतंत्रता है। लेकिन साप्रदायिक दंगा फैलाने की आजादी किसी को नहीं होनी चाहिए। इसमें केन्द्र सरकार को सख्ती से कार्रवाई करनी चाहिए। इसीलिए हमने अर्ज किया कि इस तरह से वहां हिंसा का जो तांडव हो रहा था, जिन राज्यों में अल्पसंख्यकों के जान-माल को असुरक्षित किया गया और वहां सरकार पूरी तरह विफल रही। वहां निश्चित रूप से जो धार्मिक उन्माद फैलाया गया, यह उन्माद फैलाने वाले लोगों पर सख्ती करने की जरूरत है और वहां केन्द्र सरकार को हस्तक्षेप करना चाहिए और इसके लिए धारा 355 में संशोधन करना चाहिए। चूंकि अभी जो धारा 355 है, उसके द्वारा या आप वहां लॉ एंड ऑर्डर में हस्तक्षेप करिये। यदि कहीं दंगा होता है तो आप राज्य सरकार से पूछते हैं, उनकी रिपोर्ट अपने ढंग से दी जाती है। इसलिए मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि सम्पूर्ण देश में जहां भी इस तरह का साप्रदायिक दंगा हो, इस तरह से अल्पसंख्यकों पर, चाहे अल्पसंख्यक माइनोरिटी हो, मुसलमान हो, चाहे ईसाई हो, चाहे जो भी अल्पसंख्यक हो, जहां भी इस तरह का अटैक होता है[b27] ,

उसमें केन्द्र सरकार को डायरेक्ट हस्तक्षेप करने का अधिकार होना चाहिए। उसमें संविधान में कोई संशोधन लाना पड़े, तो सरकार को संशोधन लाना चाहिए। चूंकि आपका संकल्प है, आपने ओथ ली है कि भारत का जो धर्मनिरपेक्ष संविधान है, उसको हम महफूज़ रखेंगे। लेकिन उसे आप महफूज़ कैसे रखेंगे? उसके लिए आपको धारा 355 में अमेंडमेंट लाना पड़ेगा। इसलिए धारा 355 में संशोधन लाकर केन्द्र सरकार ऐसे जिलों को चिन्हित करके केन्द्रीय बल, पैरा मिलिट्री फोर्स वहां भेजे और सेन्ट्रल एजेंसी भेजकर भी वहां जाच कराने का अधिकार केन्द्र सरकार को होना चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)

श्री राम कृपाल यादव (पटना)  : अगर धारा 355 में नहीं हो सकता है तो धारा 356 में करिए।

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : ये घारा 355 में ही आता है। धारा 356 की बात तो अलग है। बहुत पार्टीज इसमें सहमत हो सकती है और नहीं भी हो सकती हैं। फिर स्टेट और सेंटर के फैडरल स्ट्रक्चर का सवाल आएगा, स्टेट और सेंटर के रिलेशंस का सवाल भी आता है। इसीलिए मैं धारा 355 में संशोधन लाने की बात कह रहा हूं और हमें खुशी भी हुई थी कि माननीय गृह मंत्री जी का 6 महीने पहले एक वक्तव्य आया था। जहां-जहां इस तरह की घटना होती है, उसमें नक्सली हिंसा की बात थी और कुछ विद्रोही अलगाववाद की भी बात थी। यह अभी राष्ट्रीय एकता और अखंडता को तोड़ने की घटना है। जो लोग भी अल्पसंख्यकों पर अटैक कर रहे हैं, उसका दुनिया में क्या संदेश जा रहा है कि हिन्दुस्तान में जिस तरह की घटना हो रही है, अभी मालेगांव में जो घटना घटी, उसमें हिन्दू जागरण मंच sponsored by ABVP. की बात आई। कानपुर में बम विस्फोट होता है, विश्व हिन्दू परिषद के आदमी वहां बम विस्फोट में संघटित रूप से लिप्त पाए जाते हैं। गुजरात की घटना को देखा जाए। संघटित रूप से बहुसंख्यक लोगों द्वारा इस तरह का कम्युनल वायरस फैलाकर देश को बांटने की एक कोशिश की जा रही है। इसीलिए समाज में नफरत या ज़हर फैलाने की इजाजत देश में किसी भी ताकत को या किसी भी तत्व को नहीं दी जानी चाहिए।

          इसीलिए नये तरह का जो आतंकवाद फैल रहा है, आतंकवाद का मतलब केवल बाहरी आतंकवाद से नहीं है, ग्लोबल टैरेरिज्म से तो संकल्प यही है कि हम इसका मुकाबला करें लेकिन जो आंतरिक सुरक्षा को खतरा पहुंचाने वाले कट्टरपंथी विचारधारा के लोग हैं, इन लोगों पर भी सख्ती और अंकुश लगाने की जरूरत है। जब तक हमारी आंतरिक सुरक्षा सुरक्षित नहीं रहेगी तो जो विदेश के आतंकवादी हैं,  जो देश पर हमला करते हैं और जो हम उनको संघटित रूप से रोकना चाहते हैं, उसमें बाधा आएगी। मैं इसीलिए कहना चाहता हूं कि अगर हमारा साप्रदायिक सद्भाव नहीं रहेगा तो हम आतंकवादियों का मजबूती से मुकाबला नहीं कर पाएंगे। इसीलिए डा. लोहिया ने कहा था कि दुनिया के दुश्मन से लड़ने के लिए आंतरिक साप्रदायिक सद्भाव को काफी मजबूत करना चाहिए तभी हम दुनिया के आतंकवादी दुश्मन का मुकाबला कर सकते हैं। यदि घर में हमारी आंतरिक सुरक्षा खतरे में रहेगी और समुदाय के आधार पर बहुसंख्यकों द्वारा अल्पसंख्यकों पर हमला किया जाएगा, तो न लोकतांत्रिक व्यवस्था का तानाबाना बचेगा और न धर्मनिरपेक्ष जो सिद्वांत हैं,  जिनके लिए हम संकल्पित हैं उन पर भी खतरा होगा और राष्ट्रीय एकता और अखंडता पर भी आघात लगेगा। इसीलिए मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि इस नये किस्म के आतंकवाद को परिभाषित करना चाहिए। जो विदेशी आतंकवादी हैं, उनसे मुकाबला कीजिए लेकिन जो घरेलू आतंकवाद का तांडव रच रहे हैं, बर्बर हिंसा में क्या-क्या घटनाएं इन दो महीनों में लगातार घटी हैं, चाहे कर्नाटक में घटी हों या रतलाम हो या मध्य प्रदेश हो या उड़ीसा या आध्र प्रदेश हो, जो भी राज्य हो, जहां भी इस तरह की घटना होती है, इस तरह की गतिविधि को रोकना चाहिए। यह देश के हित में है और इस पर आज राष्ट्रीय बहस हो ही रही है। मेरा निवेदन है कि केन्द्र सरकार इस पर तुंत काबू पाए। जानमाल की रक्षा करने की जिम्मेदारी केन्द्र सरकार की भी है। भारतीय संविधान के विरुद्ध आचरण करने का अधिकार किसी को नहीं है। उस पर सख्ती से कार्रवाई करनी चाहिए चाहे इसके लिए स्वरूप को बदलना पड़े तो उसे भी बदलवाना चाहिए ताकि इस तरह की घटना की पुनरावृत्ति नहीं हो और हमारा देश एक रह सके, देश की एकता और अखंडता सुरक्षित रह सके, इसलिए केन्द्र सरकार को इसमें हस्तक्षेप करना चाहिए और धारा 355 में संशोधन लाना चाहिए।

                                                                                     

 

श्री इलियास आज़मी (शाहाबाद) :  सभापति महोदय, अभी हमारे साथी श्री डी.पी. यादव बोल रहे थे। वह बिलकुल सही बोल रहे थे कि आतंकवाद की बहुत सारी किस्में हैं। उन किस्मों में एक सरकारी आतंकवाद भी है। मैंने अपने मन में तय कर लिया था कि इस लोक सभा का जितना टर्म बाकी है, उसमें मैं अपने विचार नहीं रखूंगा। हालांकि मैं ज्यादा से ज्यादा विचार रखने वाला सांसद गिना जाता हूं। इसलिये मेरे नाम के साथ आजमी लगा हुआ है क्योंकि मैंने आजमगढ़ में जन्म लिया है और मैं  BSP  के अलावा किसी संगठन में नहीं हूं। केन्द्र सरकार की दिल्ली पुलिस के दिल्ली को लेकर आजमगढ़ तक इतना आतंकवाद जनता में फैलाया जितना दिल्ली पुलिस का जामिया नगर से लेकर आजमगढ़ तक पाया है। यह एक गम्भीर मसला था जिस पर संजीदगी से बहस नहीं हो सकी। जो मसला श्री आचार्य जी ने उठाया था, वह गम्भीर मसला था। मुझे अफसोस है कि कभी उधर से और कभी इधर से इस मसले पर गम्भीरता से गौर नहीं होने दिया गया । यह मसला कोई मेरा नहीं है, किसी सदस्य का नहीं है। यह मसला पूरे देश का है और पूरी सोसायटी का है। पहले जब एक पार्टी का एकछत्र राज्य हुआ करता था तो बड़े पैमाने पर पुलिस की मदद से मुसलमानों का कत्लेआम हुआ। ऐसे हजारों वाकयात हुये हैं जिसमें लाखों इन्सान मारे गये। जब उसके बाद एक पार्टी का एकछत्र राज्य समाप्त हो गया  तो यह सिलसिला रुक गया। लोग यह समझने लग गये कि शायद हमेशा के लिये इस देश को कम्युनल रायट्स से छुट्टी मिल गई है। मुझे भी  पूरा यकीन हो गया था कि देश की आवाम जाग चुकी है और अब कम्युनल रायट्स नहीं होंगे परन्तु उसकी शक्ल बदल दी गई। आतंकवाद के नाम पर एक तबके के लोगों को कई राज्यों में टारगेट करके अपनी कम्युनल जेहनियत – चाहे दिल्ली हो या हैदराबाद हो या मुम्बई हो या अहमदाबाद हो – राजनेताओं ने अपनी भावनाओं की तसकीन करने के लिए पुलिस द्वारा फर्जी एनकाऊंटर करके एक तबके के लोगों को टौरचर करके, भयभीत करके उसकी फर्जी एनकाऊंटर की कहानी दिखाकर  मारा गया। सोहराबुद्दीन हो या कौसर बीबी हो, ये मामले हमारे सामने हैं। अभी गुजरात सरकार ने कहा कि यह फर्जी एनकाऊंटर नहीं था लेकिन यह फर्जी एनकाऊंटर साबित हो चुका है। जिस तरह ख्वाजा युनूस भाग गया, पुलिस ने फर्जी एनकाऊंटर में मार डाला लेकिन पुलिस ने कभी नहीं कहा कि यह फर्जी एनकांटर था। हम समझ रहे थे कि ख्वाजा युनूस पुलिस हिरासत से भाग गया है। लेकिन जब उसकी लाश मिली और इन्क्वायरी हुई तो मुकदमा चला।

          सभापति महोदय, मैं यही कहना चाहता हूं कि श्री डी.पी. यादव ने बिलकुल सही कहा है जिसकी मैं ताईद करूंगा। प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव ने जो कहा है उन्होंने जिस दर्द का इज़हार किया है, मैं उसकी ताईद करता हूं। ये लोग मानते नहीं हैं। अपनी साप्रदायिक भावना की तसकीन होती है। पुलिस एनकांऊंटर के नाम पर कत्ल कराना – यह गम्भीर मसला है।  अफसोस की बात तो यह है कि यह मसला अब कर्नाटक तक पहुंच गया है जहां कभी कम्युनल रायट्स नहीं होते थे। साऊथ में कम्युनल रायट्स बहुत कम या कभी होते नहीं थे। उड़ीसा एक पीसफुल स्टेट है। वहां अब मुसलमान नहीं तो ईसाईयों का सिलसिला चला है। कर्नाटक के साथ मिले हुये आध्र प्रदेश में 6-6 इन्सानों को जिन्दा जलाया गया। वहां तो किसी कम्युनल पार्टी की सरकार नहीं है और न किसी कम्युनल पार्टी के सहयोग से सरकार चल रही है। मैं पूछता हूं कि महाराष्ट्र में किस की सरकार है? सब से ज्यादा फर्जी एनकाऊंटर महाराष्ट्र में हुए जहां एक तबके के 50 नौजवानों को मार दिया गया। वहां तो  कोई गुजरात वाला मुख्यमंत्री नहीं बैठा हुआ था। वहां तो बीजेपी या आरएसएस की सरकार नहीं है। हमें इन सब सवालों पर संजीदगी से गौर करना पड़ेगा।[s28]  मैं कोट करूँगा, भारतीय जनता पार्टी के राष्ट्रीय अध्यक्ष राजनाथ सिंह को, उन्होंने दो-तीन महीना पहले, नहीं, एक साल से भी पहले राज्य सभा में कहा था।

16.05 hrs.                                  (Shri Devendra Prasad in the Chair)

अगर कहीं पर रॉयट होता है और वह चंद घंटों से ज्यादा चलता है, रॉयट कहीं भी हो सकता है, झगड़ा कहीं भी हो सकता है। हम यहाँ पर 25,30, 50 लोग बैठे हुए हैं। यहाँ भी झगड़ा हो सकता है, लेकिन अगर वह झगड़ा घंटा, दो घंटा, चार घंटा से ज्यादा चलता है तो यह समझ लीजिए की स्टेट सरकार निकम्मी है, या स्टेट गवर्नमेंट की मर्जी से या उसकी शह पर या उसको खुश करने के लिए झगड़ा हो रहा है। उन्होंने कहा कि मैं उत्तर प्रदेश जैसे बड़े राज्य का मुख्यमंत्री रह चुका हूँ और मैं अपने तजुर्बे के बेस पर कह सकता हूँ कि झगड़ा कहीं पर भी हो सकता है, लेकिन अगर झगड़ा बहुत ज्यादा देर तक चलता है, एक दिन या दो दिन चलता है तो मान लीजिए कि राज्य सरकार निकम्मी है। आज क्या हो रहा है? आध्र प्रदेश कई-कई दिन जलता रहा, कई-कई दिन जलता रहा, बुरहानपुर कई-कई दिन जलता रहा, कंधमाल कई-कई महीने जलता रहा, कर्नाटक भी कई-कई दिन जलता रहा। मैं यह बिल्कुल नहीं मान सकता कि यह कोई इत्तिफाक की घटना थी। कुछ सरकार लॉ एंड आर्डर के बिल्कुल जिम्मेदार हैं। या तो उनकी शह पर यह हुआ है या उनकी नालायकी की वजह से यह हुआ है। मैं उनसे कह रहा हूँ और खासकर यह जहाँ हुआ है, महाराष्ट्र में, आध्र प्रदेश में, मध्यप्रदेश में, उड़ीसा में और कर्नाटक में। मैं वहाँ की सरकारों से कहूँगा कि अगर उनको ढंग नहीं है तो वे लखनऊ आ जाएं और ट्रेनिंग ले लें। उत्तर प्रदेश में कम से कम एक दर्जन से अधिक जगहों पर फसाद कराने की कोशिश उग्रवादी हिन्दू संगठनों ने की। वहाँ घटनाएं भी हुईं। कोई भी रिकार्ड नहीं बता सकता कि कहीं पर दो घंटे से ज्यादा फसाद चला हो। एक घंटे से दो घंटे में काबू पाया गया। उत्तर प्रदेश में जितनी कोशिशें हुई हैं अगर सरकार चौकस न होती, सरकार जागरूक न होती, सरकार हस्सास न होती तो कम से कम उत्तर प्रदेश सर-ए-फेहरिस्त होता, लेकिन उत्तर प्रदेश का नाम नहीं है। एक दर्जन, दो दर्जन से ज्यादा घटनाएं वहाँ फसाद कराने की कोशिश की गई, लेकिन आधा घंटा, एक घंटा से ज्यादा कहीं कोई कामयाब नहीं हो सका। इसलिए मैं उन प्रदेशों की सरकारों से कहूँगा कि अगर उनको ढंग नहीं है तो लखनऊ आओ, हम ट्रेनिंग कैम्प बनाते हैं। लखनऊ में बैठी मुख्यमंत्री से तुम ट्रेनिंग ले लो कि कैसे इन दंगों को कंट्रोल किया जाता है?

           दोस्तों आखिर में मैं ज्यादा वक्त नहीं लूंगा। मैं यह चाहूँगा कि नरेन्द्र मोदी भी आकर ट्रेनिंग ले लें। जो लोग सही हो रहे हों, और ज्यादा सही हो जाएंगे। आप अपने पुराने लोगों से कहिए वह भी ट्रेनिंग ले लें। उत्तर प्रदेश में आ जाएं ट्रेनिंग ले लें तो एक घंटा, दो घंटा से ज्यादा कहीं कोई झगड़ा नहीं चल पाएगा।

          सभापति महोदय, आखिर में मैं एक बात बताना चाहता हूँ।

सभापति महोदय : आप बैठकर न बोलें। टोका-टाकी न करें।

श्री इलियास आज़मी : बहुत गौर से मैनें प्रोफेसर साहब की बात सुनी है।

सभापति महोदय : आप अपना भाषण जारी रखिए। आप टोका-टाकी में मत फंसिए।

श्री इलियास आज़मी (शाहाबाद) : आखिर में मैं एक बात कहूँगा, इस सबके पीछे भावना यह है कि हिन्दू भाईयों ने, कुछ क्रिमिनल तत्वों ने कुछ फासिस्ट तत्वों ने फैला दिया कि कनवर्जन के जरिए हिन्दू अल्पमत में आ जाएंगे। यह एक खौफ उनके अंदर पैदा किया है और खौफ पैदा करने का ही यह नतीजा हुआ है। मैं यह कह रहा हूँ कि दुनिया में कभी भी कोई भी अपना धर्म न लालच से बदल सकता है और न दबाव से बदल सकता है। बड़े हिन्दूवादी लोग यहाँ बैठे हैं, मैं उनसे कह रहा हूँ। यहाँ गरम हिन्दुत्व वाले भी हैं और नरम हिन्दुत्व वाले भी हैं। मैं दोनों से कहूँगा कि इस मुल्क में हिन्दुओं की आबादी अस्सी प्रतिशत से ऊपर होगी, कम नहीं होगी। जम्हूरी निजाम में, मेजोरटी के लोग और दौलत 99 प्रतिशत हिन्दुओं के हाथ में है। सारे बड़े पूंजीपति हिन्दू हैं। लाओ सारी दौलत खर्च करके हमारे जैसे मुसलमानों को खरीदकर हिन्दू बना लो। झगड़ा करने की क्या जरूरत है?[r29] 

अगर धन के बल पर कोई कनवर्शन संभव है तो आपके पास सारा धन है। अकेला अंबानी सारे ईसाईयों को खरीदकर हिन्दू बना सकता है, अकेला एक पूँजीपति ऐसा कर सकता है। सारे पूँजीपति आपके हैं। झगड़ा करने की क्या ज़रूरत है? आप धन खर्च करके सबको बदलवा लीजिए। …( व्यवधान) अगर धर्म परिवर्तन डर पर होता, भय पर होता तो हज़ारों कम्यूनल रायट्स हुए, हज़ारों-हज़ार मुसलमान मारे गए, इसी दिल्ली में 2000 सिखों को जला दिया गया, पूरी सरकारी ताकत लगाकर सब कुछ हुआ। गुजरात में किया, बाकी जगहों पर और लोगों ने किया, लेकिन क्या एक मुसलमान का धर्म भय के बल पर बदलवा सके? नहीं बदलवा सके। इसलिए यह बात बिल्कुल गलत है कि कोई आदमी अपना मज़हब पैसे के बल पर बदल सकता है या खौफ़ के बल पर बदल सकता है। आज दुनिया में सबसे ताकतवर मुल्क यूरोप और अमेरिका हैं। वहां इस वक्त सबसे ज्यादा कनवर्शन हो रहा है। उतना कनवर्शन हमारे देश में नहीं हो रहा है। यूरोप और अमेरिका की सोसाइटी कनवर्ट हो रही है। उसका रेशियो हमारे यहां से बहुत ज्यादा है। वहां तो ताकत भी बहुत ज्यादा है, दौलत भी बहुत ज्यादा है, किसी चीज़ की कमी नहीं है। आखिर कनवर्शन क्यों हो रहा है? इसलिए इस चीज़ को मिटाइए, दिमागों से निकालिये जो हिन्दू भाइयों के दिमाग में डाल रहे हैं कि कनवर्शन से तुम अल्पसंख्यक हो जाओगे। अरे! कनवर्शन होता है जब किसी इंसान को उसका घर पसंद नहीं आएगा तो वह अपना घर बदल लेगा, चाहे किराए का हो।

सभापति महोदय : आप कनक्लूड कीजिए।

श्री इलियास आज़मी : मैं ज्यादा समय नहीं ले रहा हूँ। मैं अपनी बात खत्म कर रहा हूँ। इसलिए मैं कह रहा हूँ कि इस देश पर सब लोग मिलकर रहम करें, इस देश के साथ दया करें। यहां के लोग बहुत मासूम हैं। इतने शरीफ़ लोग दुनिया के किसी मुल्क में नहीं पाए जाते, चाहे वे हिन्दू या मुसलमान हों, सिख या ईसाई हों, उनकी भारी मेजारिटी है। 99 प्रतिशत लोग जितने शरीफ और बेहतर इस मुल्क के हैं, दुनिया में कहीं नहीं पाए जाते। इनके ऊपर सारी पार्टियों को मिलकर दया करनी चाहिए, इनके साथ रहम कीजिए, इनको मत बरगलाइए, इनको मत लड़ाइए। ये धंधा बंद कर दीजिए, वरना जब यह देश नहीं रहेगा, तो न हम रहेंगे, न आप रहेंगे। जब सोसाइटी बिखरेगी, तो बहुत बुरा होगा। इसलिए इस सोसाइटी पर रहम कीजिए। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात खत्म करता हूँ।

                                                                                               

 

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the whole country appreciates the secular fundamentals of the people who framed our Constitution and while framing of our Constitution number of debates actually educate us as to what is our hoary past and how our freedom struggle started throughout the foreign yolk and how we inculcated a sense of brotherhood. But this country achieved Independence at a time when two communities were catching each other’s throat. Communal tension in this country is nothing new. But there are places in this country where repeated tensions have prevailed. We as Oriyas have taken pride that Orissa has been comparatively free from communal tensions for the last five or six decades. [k30] 

          When I stand here to speak on a resolution or on a topic which has not only hurt the people of this country and abroad but has grievously hurt us all because Orissa has become a cradle for the last two months of communal and ethnic violence. We accept it. We accept it with a grievous heart and we accept it with full responsibility. When I see the empty chairs in this House, I can only express my anguish at the manner in which some Members raised it today in the afternoon, and did not think it fit to hear what we, as BJD Members and representatives of Orissa, have to say in regard to the situation that has ashamed us. 

          Two incidents have occurred. One in December, 2007 and another in August, 2008. There is a gap in-between of seven-and-a-half months. Today when I am discussing about these two incidents, I will be sitting here also to hear the Home Minister’s response. I admire him for very many reasons, but one reason I want to express here is that he is a person who does not believe in shifting the goalpost when the game is on, but we have heard a number of people on my left who have a tendency of shifting their goalpost and they think that it is politics.

          The responsibility of an elected Government need not be told to a person like Shri Naveen Patnaik who is heading Orissa Government. During his tenure of eight-and-a-half years, these are the two single incidents. Since 2000 till December, 2007 and from January till mid of August, Orissa has witnessed peace and tranquillity much better in comparison to other States of this country. The law and order situation in Orissa is much better than in other nearby States. But I also admit that these two incidents have alerted us, alerted the Government of Orissa and even alerted the Government of India, to prepare itself for such occurrences because these are engineered by a specific type of persons who do it for a specific purpose. Here, the administration has to play a greater role together. There is no doubt that responsibility can be shifted to the State Government, but Central Government also has certain responsibility.

This incident occurred on 23rd August when Swami Lakshmananda, a person who is above 80 years of age, had been working with the Kondh tribals and Pana Scheduled Castes. He has been there for the last 40 to 45 years. He did not land there five years back or ten years back.[SS31] 

He has been working with them for the last five decades.

          The manner in which that murder took place — along with four others — clearly indicates the swiftness of Maoists. The group, which entered the ashram — which is a kanya ashram and a parent of a girl was also killed — came swiftly, and murdered and butchered. Some persons were hacked, and I need not explain what other things occurred on that night. It need not be. But heinous things occurred during that night, and within a span of 90 minutes they swiftly evaporated. They came with automatic guns and ultra-modern ammunitions. Some of them have been arrested, and others have been apprehended. After about 21 to 30 days, a Maoist comes out on audio-visual media and in print media and claims that they have done it. Slowly, the pattern is getting clearer.

          Many things have not been reported in the media. I would not blame the media because media has reported all that has been fed to them. Some of them have gone to the place, but there is a limitation. They could meet only those persons who were approachable. Many people do not say it, but this is a place or district that is far away from the Capital and from the urban areas. It is a densely forested district. Someone was asking this question. It was said that : “Why you are not able to do it in Orissa if it could happen in UP? We could control riot in two hours’ time.” You have an experience of last six decades to deal with riots, but we do not have the same. You have mastered that technique, but we have not done it. It is a densely forested area. The villages constitute of hardly 50 houses or 100 houses, and the distance between one village and another village is not less than 5 to 10 kms. They are scattered and little communication and road facility is there.

          What happened on 23rd night? Frantically, the Chief Minister asked for Central Forces, and the Central Forces arrived on the 27th.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : No, Sir. This is the point that the State Government has been making. We have not blamed the State Government for anything. But in order to say that as to why they have not been able to control the situation, this is what they are saying. When I talked to the Chief Minister on telephone, he said that : “Give me four battalions”, and we did give him 11 battalions.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : But the date on which … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Initially, he had asked for four battalions, and we have given him 11 battalions. Further, we have air-lifted the battalions. We have withdrawn because we did not have the forces from the international borders, and we have given it. It is not necessary to discuss this issue. But in order to say that as to why they have not been able to control it, if they are saying it, then it is his thought. … (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB : I understand your predicament. This country is very large.[r32] 

A number of things are happening in different parts of the country. I understand your predicament, Sir. But this House should also understand the situation that is there on the ground.

          This murder took place on 23rd night. A number of districts in Orissa, as the whole House is aware, are Maoist-infested. That has to be looked into. Here, a new situation cropped up. You cannot put Police in every village, in every Sub-Divisional headquarters. Immediate deployment was necessary; helicopter was sought. When did the helicopter arrive? We instantly wanted it; I understand that the helicopter was required on 25th.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: You did not want it; we have given it to you.

SHRI B. MAHTAB: That was required; what you are saying is not true.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I mean, it is not necessary that you should go on to those points. That is not the correct line to take. You did not ask for you did not use the helicopters which we had given to you.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : That is not true. Those helicopters arrived on 27th; we needed them on 25th because a large number of trees were cut and the roads were blocked; that is why, helicopters were required. But the helicopters and most of the other things arrived on 27th. By that time, our Police forces, our Administration had cleared the roads and already they were moving into the interior.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude your speech.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : Do you want me to conclude? I have not started yet.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already taken 15 minutes.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : What do you want me to say then?

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already taken 15 minutes.

SHRI B. MAHTAB: I should be allowed to complete my speech.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have started your speech around 4.20 p.m. Please conclude your speech within the next two or three minutes.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : This is one aspect. For record, I would say that there are 2,400 sparsely distributed villages in that single district and everybody should be aware of this fact. When we say that it is a communal clash, you must know that Orissa has 30 districts, and Christians are not confined to that district alone. There is a large concentration of Christians in Sundergarh and Rayagada, but not a single incident has occurred earlier nor has it happened even in 2008. Why? Then, why did it happen in Kandamal? That is a question which needs to be contemplated and which needs to be inquired into. Three or four days back, I had raised that issue in this House. How much of foreign money is coming?

SHRI GIRIDHAR GAMANG (KORAPUT): Mr. Mahtab, can you yield for a minute?

SHRI B. MAHTAB : I am not yielding. You can participate when your turn comes because the Chair is asking me to conclude my speech.

SHRI GIRIDHAR GAMANG: I will reply to it later.

SHRI B. MAHTAB: Rayagada is represented by Shri Gamang and Sundergarh is represented by Shri Jual Oram.

          Why did it happen in Kandamal? It is because Kandamal has a history of past 200 years. It is not a simple thing which we can discuss for four hours, go home and have a good sleep. It dates back to the colonial period. The dispute is not only relating to religion, the dispute is relating to land, the dispute is relating to economic unevenness, the dispute is relating to marketing of agricultural produce and forest produce, the dispute is relating to social recognition. There are a number of disputes. I would say, for you, Mr. Chairman, to ponder over, why this has happened just eight or ten months before the elections.  [r33] In 1944, for  more than seven months, communal tension and ethnic clashes continued when we had a non-Congress Government in Orissa and a Congress Government here in Delhi. The same thing has happened now just a year before the Parliamentary election. Is there any link in between? Is there any link between 1994 clashes and 2008 clashes? If there is any link, that link is Congress. The link is not BJP; the link is not Bajrang Dal, as some Members want to portray, the link is Congress. This is my allegation. These clashes are occurring for political reasons. The disturbing dimension is the Maoists have come in. That is disturbing us.

          Historically, the tribal citizens living in the Central part of India have been neglected. There is competition to take that space. Mr. Avanikant Borat, a prominent CPI Leader had tried his best to at least organise the people in that area so that he could work there. But he failed. He failed because there was competition between the missionaries that were going into that area. We had Christian missionaries; we had Hindu missionaries; and now we have Maoist missionaries. Can the political system, political leadership prevail upon that District? It has failed in some parts of Jharkhand? That is our concern. That is raising a lot of questions.

          I would say that providing companies of CRPF, building up forces, will happen. That is necessary and that is being done. The Orissa Government has announced a special package for the District. Special courts have been established. Fast-track court has been established. The process of Judicial Inquiry has already started. A retired Judge of Orissa High Court is already on the job. But when wrong things, false and fabricated things are stated day in and day out, it is necessary to clarify certain things. One such thing is about this alleged nun rape case.

          What is the allegation she made in the FIR? She has categorically stated that only one person was there. But repeatedly a number of hon. Members in this House have stated that it was a gang rape. The FIR says that it was one person. Later on she comes before the media and says that a number of others were spectators. That is not there in the FIR. We are supposed to be lawmakers. What is clearly demonstrated in the Evidence Act?  These are technicalities but they need to be explained. When a medical examination takes place, is it a public document? When can it be published and who has the authority to publish it?[KMR34] 

Accused persons have been arrested but they have to be identified.  She comes out and tells that she does not have faith in the administration of the State Government.  But the Apex court, the Supreme Court of India has categorically stated, unlike in some other cases the Supreme Court has categorically stated in this case, that there is no case for CBI inquiry.

          The hon. Minister is not here but he is a Member of the House. He was the first person, Shri Ram Vilas Paswan, to come out with a statement saying impose Article 356 and dismiss Shri Naveen Patnaik’s Government.   Some other Members also supported him with a chorus.  I would not say that subsequently the persons who wanted to impose Article 356 developed cold feet but what has happened later on. What best could have been done has been done for bringing peace and tranquillity in Orissa.

          I am reminded of Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru’s short note which was circulated 50 years ago to different State Governments.  It was in October 1958 when Jawahar Lal Nehru wrote explaining what India’s policies towards the tribals should be.  He urged the tribal rights in land and forest be protected. The tribal art and culture be respected and renewed and that the tribals themselves be involved in their own administration.   I would quote him.  He said:

“We should avoid introducing too many outsiders into tribal territory and that the Government’s schemes in tribal areas work through and not in rivalry to their own social and cultural institutions.”

 

Nehru had said that people should develop along the lines of their own genius and we should avoid imposing anything on them. That was Jawahar Lal Nehru 50 years ago.  That prescription prompted the then Congress Government of Orissa to prepare a Freedom of Religion Law. The Bill was introduced and later enacted in 1967 but it went up to the Apex Court and was consented to. Subsequently the Act came into force. The rules were framed in 1989 and the catch is, the Chief Minister who initiated that rule was removed immediately.

The main crux of the problem here is conversion.  It is conversion that is actually exploding the situation.  Land Dispute (Recognition of Rights), getting education, all is there.  But I am eager to express here Christianity is nothing new for us.  We have seen Christianity much-much before the Europeans saw.  We have seen Christianity two thousand years ago just hundred years after Christ.  We have respected them, believed them and also in a way it has existed with harmony.  It is only in recent times… (Interruptions) I am just concluding.[R35] 

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please sit down.   You have already taken 25 minutes.

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): I am concluding.  It is only in recent times that one section in Christianity has cornered notoriety and annoyance when conversion takes place.  What does Swami Vivekananda has said?  Long back, he had said that those who are born Christians should become good Christians; those who are born Muslims should become good Muslims and those who are born Hindus should also become good Hindus. I am proud to be a Hindu and I respect other religions and in Orissa we respect all religions as Orissa’s religion is Jagannath cult.

                                                                                     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

          * Laid on the Table.

 

 

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR): Sir, we are discussing a very important subject, a problem that will affect the future of our secularism, democracy and social progress.  I am very happy as it was raised by our colleague, Shri Basu Deb Acharia and it gives us an opportunity to discuss this problem.  Mr. Mahtab concluded by saying that born Hindus should remain good Hindus and born Muslims should remain good Muslims.  He was quoting Swami Vivekananda.  So the point he was trying to highlight is conversion.  That was the bone of contention for creating this situation.  I think it is intolerance which is the main thing.  In this country, there are Christians, there are Muslims and there are Hindus.  If you want to see an example how they can live peacefully, an example of Kerala may be cited.  We have big minority of Muslims, big minority of Christians and Hindus are also there but comparatively there is peace.  It is a State not known for communal disharmony.   It was possible because there in that State certain realities were accepted.   The contributions made by Christians in the field of education, journalism, printing technology, health, etc. all these are accepted by everyone. 

As a matter of fact, conversions will take place, otherwise how other religions will flourish here. You cannot say that born Christians will be here.  This is a religion which came later and naturally many people joined that religion. I think we should take an approach that various religions are prescribing a path to God.  Every religion is claiming that they are doing so and all religions believe in the same God.  Therefore, Vivekananda said that we are all brothers.[R36] 

          Whichever religion one may belong to, they are all brothers. If this dictum of Swami Vivekananda was remembered, then probably all these things could have been avoided.

          Sir, we were in Orissa just after the riots took place there. I must say that my friend Shri Gurudas Dasgupta, Shri Suresh Kurup were also there. We were prevented by the Orissa Government to go there, while they allowed persons like Shri Pravin Togadia to go there and make fire-spitting venomous speeches. This is not the way that things should have happened. We did not go there to incite communalism. We went there to see was happening; we went there to see what little effort we could make for creating communal harmony. But we were prevented, on the other hand, worse communal elements were allowed to go there. That was not a good method of administration… (Interruptions)

          Sir, we were reading newspaper reports about the visit of the Chief Minister those days to Kandhmal. He went to the Ashram of the Swami who was killed. I do not have any problem. He could go there. He was praising the services of the Swami and also offered relief to the victims of that riot or whatever that happened there. But the Chief Minister failed to show the same sympathy to the people who were living in nine refugee camps… (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB : He went to the relief camps… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : I was not disturbing you. This is the problem… (Interruptions) This is a very uncultured way of saying things… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Chandrappan.

(Interruptions)* …

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Mehtab, please take your seat.

          Shri Chandrappan, please address the Chair.

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : The Chief Minister did not show the same concern and same sympathy to those to the extent he should have… (Interruptions) Please allow me to complete my speech… (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB : What did Sister Nirmala say? … (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : I am not speaking on what she said. I am speaking my experience here… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please address the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Sir, what can I do when they all are shouting?… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You please address the Chair.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : What happened was that the Government of Orissa failed in its responsibility to give protection to the people who were suffering… (Interruptions) Thousands of people, it was reported, something more than 40,000 people were strayed into the forest… (Interruptions) Though we were prevented by the State Government from going to Kandhmal, we met people who scraped through the forest and settled in YMCA, Bhubneswar, the first camp that was opened for the refugees there. [R37]  

So, we met them in the camp at Bhubhaneshwar. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please address the Chair, Shri Chandrappan.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN :  Sir, they are trying to correct me as they want.  How can that happen?  The inmates of that camp were telling how brutal was the atrocities perpetrated on them and how people who became victims of the atrocities of Bajrang Dal were not helped by the Government.  This is a very peculiar situation that created a strife in the State.  I must say that when these things were happening there and people were so helpless, the Home Minister never reached there with a sense of urgency that it required.  You might have reached there but you reached much later.  I do not know how the Minister of State for Home Affairs  who visited there was not allowed. … (Interruptions)

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL):  His helicopter did not come.… (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN :  I do not know these technicalities.  But the Union Minister of State for Home Affairs was not allowed.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: No cross talking. Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Chandrappan.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN :  The problem is that the Union Minister of State for Home Affairs should have behaved more responsibly.  If the helicopter was late as they are saying..… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Shri Chandrappan, please address the Chair.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Whatever it is, in our opinion, the picture he depicted there was a picture of helplessness.  It did not instill any kind of confidence in the people who were victims of the attack. I must say about the genesis of it.  On the eve of elections, there are elements in the country who are trying to incite certain feelings in the people.  Sometimes, it may be communalism and sometimes, it may be regionalism. They create passions, a mad situation and riots and then they try to benefit from these things. 

You can see, in Maharashtra, an off-shoot of Shiv Sena.  It is trying to create a situation by which the country will set be on fire.  This is against the North Indians.  The Shiv Sena started its innings under Bal Thackeray speaking against the South Indians.  By creating frenzy passion against South Indians, an organization was built. Now, against the North Indians, the nephew is creating passion and he is trying to create a new empire, a new political force around him. Can this be allowed?  This is inciting regional sentiments.  Similarly, anti-minority

 

* Not recorded.

 

 feelings are incited.  Sometimes, it is against Muslims and sometimes, it is against Christians. All these have a political agenda. It is a political agenda of winning the elections after inciting the feelings of the people. This cannot be allowed.  This will endanger the national unity, secularism and national integration of [U38] our country.

          This danger has to be faced squarely.  Has the Centre the political will to do so?

          I think there is an item in the Common Minimum Programme about which now-a-days nobody speaks so much.  In the Common Minimum Programme a Bill was promised to prevent communal incidents and for rehabilitation of the victims.  A Bill was sent to the Standing Committee on Home Affairs.  I think it was processed.  But, I think, it has not been introduced and passed. It is not that there was no effort made.  But for fulfilling that effort, the Home Ministry is not taking sufficient initiatives.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Please understand that the Bill is in the Rajya Sabha.  It has been introduced and it had gone to the Standing Committee.  So, the Bill need not be introduced again.  It is in the Rajya Sabha.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : You are in the fifth year of your tenure.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I have given it to the House.  The House has to decide.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : That is where the political will comes. … (Interruptions)  If you want to get a legislation passed, you can do it. We have seen it yesterday and the day before how you were steamrolling the legislature to get the legislation passed. But, for this legislation, you need not have steamrolled the legislature.  You could have brought it and we could have passed it. 

          It is a customary answer you are giving.  As the Home Minister, seeing the situation in the country, how it is deteriorating and the importance of the legislation, you should have taken more interest to see that it is passed in the Rajya Sabha and in the Lok Sabha. That kind of initiative somehow is not forthcoming from you.  That is what I am saying. 

          I would like to say one more point.  After all we have to face the elections.  Communal forces are trying to incite the people.  Now, will you give an assurance to this House that the Prime Minister will convene a Conference of the Chief Ministers and discuss this problem and come with a national agenda approved by the Prime Minister and the Chief Ministers to ensure peace, tranquility, communal harmony and see that the situation congenial for secularism and national unity will be created?  I hope the Home Minister will take this initiative to call such a meeting. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: That has already been done.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Are you referring to the National Integration Council meeting?

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Yes, The National Integration Council meeting has taken place.  The Chief Ministers had attended it and that Resolution has been passed.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : Is that enough?

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I do not know whether that is enough. But what you are suggesting has already been done.  I am only informing you that.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN :  To that extent it is good.  I would like to tell the hon. Minister that more is required if the situation has to be overcome.  I hope the Government will act with more determination and see that these incidents do not take place so much. 

          With these words, I thank you.

सभापति महोदय : अभी हमारे पास नियम 193 पर बोलने वाले 15 मांननीय सदस्यों की लिस्ट है। इसलिए हमारी रिक्वैस्ट है कि जो माननीय सदस्य बोलें, वे पांच मिनट में अपनी बात समाप्त कर दें, ताकि सभी माननीय सदस्य बोल सकें। माननीय सदस्य अगर कम समय लेंगे तो हाउस जल्दी उठ जाएगा।

श्री गुरूदास दासगुप्त (पंसकुरा) :  हाउस कब तक उठ जाएगा?

सभापति महोदय :   माननीय गुरूदास दासगुप्त जी, यह तो माननीय सदस्यों पर निर्भर करता है कि वे कितना समय लेते हैं। अगर माननीय सदस्य तीन-तीन मिनट का समय लेते हैं तो जल्दी उठ जाएगा। हम तो लिस्ट के अनुसार चल रहे हैं। कृपया माननीय सदस्य समय का ख्याल रखें।[r39] 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

श्री धर्मेन्द्र प्रधान (देवगढ़) : सभापति महोदय, मैं बिलकुल समय का ध्यान रखूंगा, लेकिन मैं उड़ीसा से आता हूं और यह विषय उड़ीसा से संबंधित है, इसलिए मुझे बोलने के लिए थोड़ा अधिक समय देंगे, यह मैं आपसे पहले ही विनती करता हूं।

          महोदय, आज बहुत ही अच्छे तरीके से चर्चा हो रही है और यहां स्वयं गृह मंत्री जी उपस्थित हैं। उड़ीसा से होने के नाते मेरे मन में एक बात आई है। श्री चन्द्रप्पन जी एक छोटी पार्टी के नेता हो सकते हैं, लेकिन वह एक अनुभवी राजनीतिज्ञ और सदस्य हैं। इस घटना के मूल में श्री मेहताब जी ने धर्मांतरण को बताया। लेकिन उन्होंने बताया कि धर्मान्तरण मुद्दा नहीं है। मैं श्री चन्द्रप्पन जी को याद दिलाना चाहूंगा, क्योंकि वह इस सदन के एक अनुभवी नेता है कि पिछली सदी के प्रारम्भ में हमारे उड़ीसा में एक नेता थे, जिनका नाम मधुसूदन दास है, वे पढ़ने के लिए कलकत्ता गए। वहां उन्होंने क्रिश्चियन धर्म अपनाया, लेकिन वह बाद में उड़ीसा में आकर उड़िया समाज के जननेता रहे।

          मैं आपको एक घटना बताना चाहता हूं कि जब अंग्रेजों ने पुरी मन्दिर की सम्पत्ति को हड़पने के लिए षडय़त्र किया कि इस मंदिर का संचालन पुरी के राजा के पास नहीं रहे, क्योंकि पुरी का राजा कोई व्यक्ति नहीं होता है, यह उड़िया समाज के पास नहीं रह सकता है, जब उन्होंने पुरी मंदिर को ब्रिटिश राज के अंतर्गत ले लिया, तब पुरी की राजमाता मधुसूदन दास के पास पहुंची, एक क्रिश्चियन के पास पहुंची। मधुसूदन दास जी ऐसे व्यक्तित्व थे, उन्होंने मना नहीं किया कि मैं क्रिश्चियन हूं, इसलिए मैं हिंदुओं की वकालत नहीं करूंगा, यह उड़ीसा की संस्कृति है। यह समझते हुए उन्होंने पुरी के मंदिर की ब्रिटिश राज से सुरक्षा की। क्रिश्चियनों का राज था।  लेकिन ऐसा किसी ने सोचा नहीं था और पुरी के मंदिर को क्रिश्चियनों से लड़कर अगर कोई लाया, तो वह उड़ीसा का एक क्रिश्चियन लाया। चंद्रप्पन जी, हमें आपसे सर्टिफिकेट नहीं चाहिए। इस सदन में जो हमारे मित्र उड़ीसा को न समझते हुए बोल रहे हैं, उनसे भी हमें सर्टिफिकेट लेने की जरूरत नहीं है।

          उड़ीसा क्या है, उड़ीसा की संस्कृति क्या है, उसके लिए हमें लोगों से सर्टिफिकेट लेने की कोई जरूरत नहीं है। आप एक बार उड़ीसा आइए। उन दिनों आपको सुरक्षा के कारण उड़ीसा आने से मना किया था, आप अब उड़ीसा आइए। आपको मैं स्वयं कंधमाल ले चलता हूं। हमने बताया है कि दो घंटे में वहां दंगे को क्यों कंट्रोल नहीं किया जा सका। माननीय गृह मंत्री जी वहां गए थे, उनको उसका अनुभव है। कंधमाल की भौगोलिक स्थिति और पृष्ठभूमि को देख कर वह खुद अनुभव कर सकते हैं।

          सभापति जी, दो महीने में इसके बाद भी कई घटनाएं हुईं। मैं श्री महताब की बात को थोड़ा आगे बढ़ाता हूं कि हम मूल कारण को देखें। मैं कुछ तथ्य आपके सामने रखना चाहता हूं। माननीय सदस्य ने विवेकानंद जी का उल्लेख किया। मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि जिस कांग्रेस के नेतृत्व में आज देश की सरकार चल रही है, जो कांग्रेस गांधी जी के हेरिटेज को आगे ले जाने वाली पार्टी होने का दावा करती है, गांधी जी ने क्या धर्मांतरण के लिए क्या कहा था। गांधी जी ने हरिजन में 23 जनवरी, 1937 को क्या लिखा था, मैं उसे कोट करता हूं –

“

It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to world’s progress toward peace. Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity?  Why he should not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man.”

 

THE MINISTER OF OVERSEAS INDIAN AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI VAYALAR RAVI): That is why, you killed him. … (Interruptions)

श्री धर्मेन्द्र प्रधान :  महोदय, अगर भारत सरकार के मंत्री नौजवान सांसद के भाषण में रोकटोक करेंगे, मैं उनसे क्षमा चाहता हूं, उन पर प्रभु दया करे। माननीय रवि जी आपने 1967 के शासनकाल की घटना को कोट किया। उस समय उड़ीसा में न तो जनसंघ था, भारतीय जनता पार्टी नहीं थी, न विश्व हिंदू परिषद थी, न बजरंग दल था, केवल आपकी सरकार थी। मध्य प्रदेश में आपकी सरकार थी, अरुणाचल प्रदेश में आपकी सरकार थी। तीन प्रांतों ने धर्मांतरण लॉ पारित किया, जो उड़ीसा में 1989 में अमल में आया[I40] ।

          मैं एक तथ्य का आपके सामने उल्लेख करना चाहता हूं। 1961 में कंधमाल जिले में जनसंख्या के अनुसार तीन लाख हिन्दु थे और क्रिश्चियन 19,000 थे तब धर्म परिवर्तन में किसी को आपत्ति नहीं हुई। चन्द्रपॉल जी ने कहा इतनी बड़ी संख्या में क्रिश्चियन हो नहीं सकते। अगर कोई क्रिश्चियन धर्म की तरफ आकृष्ट होकर जाता है तो हमें क्या आपत्ति है? हम 2001 की जनसंख्या को देखें तो हिन्दुओं की संख्या 3,00,000 से बढ़कर 5,70 ,000 हुई जबकि क्रिश्चियनों की संख्या 6,20,000 तक पहुंची। इस तरह से यह छः गुना से ज्यादा हुई और हिन्दुओं की संख्या दो गुना भी नहीं हुई। सबने संविधान के बारे में बात कही, लेकिन गैर संवैधानिक काम कौन कर रहा है? उड़ीसा में संविधान के तहत विधान सभा में इस संबंध में रूल बनाया गया है।…( व्यवधान)

सभापति महोदय :  आप चेयर को कोऑपरेट कीजिए। आपको बोलते हुए छः मिनट हो गए हैं।

श्री धर्मेन्द्र प्रधान : मैं आपका सम्मान करता हूं। आप मुझे जानते हैं और मैं आपको कोऑपरेट भी करता हूं। मैं जल्दी ही अपनी बात समाप्त करूंगा लेकिन मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि यूपीए सरकार बहुत दावा करती है कि सूचना का अधिकार लाकर देश में क्रान्ति लाए हैं। सूचना के अधिकार के तहत किसी व्यक्ति ने पूछा और 1989 रूल कहता है कि आप धर्म परिवर्तन कर सकते ,हैं लेकिन आपको जिला कलक्टर को बताना पड़ेगा कि आप धर्म परिवर्तन कर रहे हैं और इसमें कोई आपत्ति नहीं होगी। कलक्टर की अनुमति से 1990 से 2008 तक सिर्फ दो व्यक्तियों ने धर्म परिवर्तन किया है। यही मुख्य अंश है कि जन्माष्टमी के दिन स्वामी जी की हत्या की गई। स्वामी जी के बारे में मेहताब जी ने उल्लेख किया है, इसलिए मैं उसे दोहराना नहीं चाहता हूं, लेकिन जन्माष्टमी के दिन हिन्दू संत की हत्या करेंगे? जब इंदिरा जी की हत्या हुई, तब राजीव जी का बयान आया कि एक बड़ा पेड़ गिरेगा तो हलचल होगी, धरती हिलेगी। अगर संत की हत्या होगी तो आप कहेंगे कि यह सारी चीज क्या हो गई? मैं किसी प्रकार की हिंसा को जस्टीफाइ नहीं करता। मैं एक बात का उल्लेख करना चाहता हूं कि इससे ज्यादा कोई घृणा का कार्य नहीं हो सकता है। मैं समुदाय विशेष से पूछना चाहता हूं कि अगर सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने कहा कि आपको सीबीआई इंक्वायरी नहीं चाहिए, राज्य सरकार ठीक काम कर रही है, राज्य सरकार की पुलिस पर भरोसा कीजिए, तब आप पत्रकार वार्ता में क्यों कहते हैं कि हम सुप्रीम कोर्ट की बात नहीं मानेंगे, हमें सीबीआई इंक्वायरी चाहिए। यह मामला इतना नहीं बढ़ता, अगर इसमें राजनीति नहीं आती। मैं आप पर आरोप लगाना नहीं चाहता हूं, लेकिन मुझे बहुत अपेक्षा थी जब गृह मंत्री उड़ीसा पहुंचे थे। रक्षा मंत्री के बारे में कहा जाता है कि ये क्रिश्चियन के घर गए और बाद में मैरी लेडीज होस्टल गए, लेकिन गृह मंत्री जी ने इतनी सहृदयता नहीं दिखाई। वह समस्या को देखने के लिए विशिष्ट वर्गों के पास गए। वह तो होस्टल नहीं गए, लेकिन स्वामी जी के पास गए। ऐसा कहा जाता है कि विदेश में हमें बदनाम किया जाता है। माननीय प्रधानमंत्री आते-आते फ्रांस में गए तो फ्रांस के प्रधानमंत्री की आपत्ति सुननी पड़ी। फ्रांस अपने देश में अल्पसंख्यकों को जीने नहीं देता है और उनके सर्टीफिकेट पर भारत में हलचल होती है? हमें अनुच्छेद 356 को लेकर केन्द्र सरकार ने धमकाया। नरेंद्र मोदी को अनुच्छेद 355 दिखाया और अब अनुच्छेद 356 दिखाकर धमकाया गया। कैबिनेट की बैठक हुई तो सूचना मंत्री बाहर आकर बोले कि हमें जरूरत होगी तो उड़ीसा में अनुच्छेद 356 लगाएंगे। नरेंद्र मोदी जी का नाम बार-बार सब लेते हैं जबकि उन्हें गुजरात में दो बार जनादेश मिल चुका है। नरेंद्र मोदी जी ने बढ़िया बयान दिया था, शायद मैडम को उड़ीसा में अनुच्छेद 356 की कैंडल लाइट की सलामी देने के लिए इतनी जल्दबाजी हुई। हम आह्वान करना चाहते हैं अगर केन्द्र सरकार में हिम्मत है तो इसे दोनों बैठकर

 

 

सुलझाएं क्योंकि यह लॉ एंड ऑर्डर का मामला है। मैं आपको * की कहानी बताता हूं। *किस ढंग से…( व्यवधान)

श्री गिरिधर गमांग (कोरापुट):* नाम क्यों लेते हैं वे राज्य सभा के एमपी हैं?

सभापति महोदय:  नाम रिकॉर्ड में नहीं जाएगा।

…( व्यवधान)

श्री धर्मेन्द्र प्रधान : गमांग जी, * को आपसे अच्छा कौन जान सकता है? आप राजनीतिक कारणों से गोवा के बारे में नहीं बोलते हैं? लेकिन उनकी भूमिका क्या है? ठीक है, मैं उनका नाम नहीं लेता। लेकिन गमांग जी, आग लगाने का काम किसने किया? यह आपसे बेहतर कौन जान सकता है। वहां की आदिवासी सभ्यता से छेड़छाड़ किसने की?…( व्यवधान)[r41] 

आपसे अधिक कौन जान सकता है।

सभापति महोदय : आप नाम नहीं ले सकते हैं, क्योंकि वह सदन में अपना पक्ष नहीं रख सकते हैं। आप उनका नाम न लें।

श्री धर्मेन्द्र प्रधान :  सभापति जी, मैं इतना जरूर कहूंगा कि कांग्रेस राजनीति छोड़ दे, तथाकथित धर्मनिरपेक्षतावादी राजनीति छोड़ दे। यहां कहा जाता है कि माइनोरिटी पर अत्याचार हुआ है। दिल्ली में आपकी सरकार है, दिल्ली में आपकी पुलिस चलती है। गृह मंत्री जी, जामिया नगर में हमला करके उग्रवादियों को मारा गया, बाद में ये लोग क्या कहते हैं। कुछ निर्दिष्ट वर्ग को ध्यान में रखते हुए राजनीति करते हैं। आपकी कांग्रेस भी कहती है कि जामिया नगर वाले मामले की न्यायिक जांच होनी चाहिए और ये लोग हमें फूलबनी और कंधमाल के बारे में नसीहत देंगे, जो वोट बैंक की राजनीति से प्रेरित हैं। जिन्हें अपनी कुर्सी के सिवाय कुछ नहीं दीखता है। मैं सदन से अपील करना चाहता हूं कि उड़ीसा के सफल नेतृत्व को छोड़ दीजिए, हम उसे संभाल चुके हैं। उड़ीसा को और खराब करने की आपको और हमें कोई आवश्यकता नहीं है, इसे हमें अपने आप ठीक करने का मौका दीजिए।

          आपने मुझे बोलने का मौका दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपको बहुत-बहुत धन्यवाद देता हूं।    

 

 

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

THE MINISTER OF PANCHAYATI RAJ AND MINISTER OF DEVELOPMENT OF NORTH EASTERN REGION (SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, we were reminded by Shri Mahtab of a quotation by Shri Jawaharlal Nehru regarding how we should treat the tribals all over the country and Central India in particular. As the Minister of Panchayati Raj, I am constrained to point out that the legal provisions for this are to be found in an Act passed unanimously by this Parliament in 1996, namely the Panchayat (Extension to Scheduled Areas) Act under which all these protections could be afforded. Unfortunately the implementation of this Act in Orissa leaves a great deal to be desired.

          Having said that, I would like to remind him of another quotation from Jawaharlal Nehru. It was in October, 1951, seven years before the quotation that Shri Mahtab gave us where Jawaharlal Nehru, at the Ram Lila Ground on Gandhiji’s birthday – a definition to secularism, which, I do not think, has been bettered since then – said:

“If a man raises his hand against another in the name of religion, I shall fight him till the last breath of my life whether from inside the Government or from outside.”

 

          If that is the litmus test of secularism, then we need to ask the Government of Orissa and, in particular, the Chief Minister of Orissa whether he has lived up to this litmus test.

          Sir, I have no doubt, as Shri Mahtab has no doubt, that Shri Naveen Patnaik means it when he says that he is secular in every bone of his body and went on to add that not a single bone in his body is broken. But the bones of several others are broken and what they need to be asked is whether the behaviour of the Government of Orissa matched up to the definition where Shri Jawaharlal Nehru said: “If a man raises his hand against another in the name of religion, I shall fight him…”

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Please ask the same question to Mr. Tarun Gogoi of Assam.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: All right. I think that has led me very well into the next point I wish to make.

          Shri Mahtab refers to two incidents, one of December, 2007 and another incident of August, 2008. May I remind him that it was not one incident of August, 2008 that we are talking about here? The incident that he has referred to is the brutal murder of a Swami who needed to be respected and whose age needed to be respected. It is not that incident which this House is talking about. It is all the incidents that followed the incident of 23rd August. Nobody in this House supports the incident which happened on 23rd August. But what I am very disturbed about is that after a series of other incidents have taken place where at least tens of thousands, and possibly hundreds of thousands, of people are affected, the reply given to us is that this is a historic problem of 200 years. This is probably a historic problem of several thousands of years.

          Sir, it was Mr. Mahtab himself who claimed that Orissa is a State of peace and tranquility and that nothing has happened except in 1994 and again in 2008.[R42] 

[r43] If that is so, then why is it that any kind of dispute, that might exist between sections of the population, with respect to inequality or land has not caused all this. I think, ultimately, the truth came out when Shri Mahtab said, ‘crux’ and I quote his words, “The crux of the issue…” he said, “…is conversion”.

          So, we come back to whatever may be the history of the last two hundred years or more, whatever might be Shri Madhusudan Das’s contribution to saving the Puri Temple, whatever might be the heritage of Biju Patnaik in Orissa for the preservation of secularism, when it came to the litmus test on the 23rd of August and for the better parts of two months thereafter, that was the test which the Government of Orissa failed and it failed because it is of the confused frame of mind on the specific question at the crux of the issue which is conversions.

          You cannot make conversions the excuse for mass murder, you cannot make conversions the excuse for mass disgracement of human beings, you cannot make conversions the excuse for mass arson.  The issue before the House today is the mass arson, the mass murder and the mass displacement that has taken place in Orissa.  What we ought to be addressing is those issues and not whether our Constitution or laws made in 1989 and subsequently referred to conversions.

          The Constitution of India to which Shri Mahtab, like all the rest of us, have sworn fealty  at the time that we became Members of this House, categorically permits people of any religion, including the Hindu religion, to propagate their religion and it is precisely because there are Hindus who propagate their religion.  In fact, the Rama Krishna Mission calls itself a mission and has no hesitation in converting those who wish to become Hindus from some other religion into the Hindu religion, that, without specifying which religion can propagate, it says every religion has a right to propagate. 

When this propagation takes place, if State Governments introduce rules and regulations of the kind that has been referred by the BJP gentleman, who has fled this House – which is a habit of theirs, they speak and then run away – let me remind them that in Tamil Nadu, we had a similar law passed and it had to be withdrawn by exactly the same legislature that had brought it in.  It is absurd that a person’s personal view on what is religion ought to be, has to be certified by a District Magistrate.  Is the IAS or the Pope going to decide whether you are a Catholic?  This is absurd and it is because behind all this is a conspiracy to subvert our Constitution, to prevent conversion by any religion into any religion that we have this kind of a trouble… (Interruptions) I am not answering Mr. Swain.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Did he know about this conspiracy today? He did not know about it earlier. They are just planning it now. He has stated that the BJP people have the habit of running away and he has the habit of just coming now and only referring to one person.  I have also said so many things. He should refer to me also.  He will know what I have spoken… (Interruptions)

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: With your permission, I would like to say that it is a completely unwarranted interruption by a gentleman who was speaking. I was watching him on Television and shocked, amazed at the kind of language he was using.  I have come here and my answer is as much to him as to Shri Mahtab… (Interruptions)

          Sir, the critical question that is arisen over here is that if you have a mentality which says that there is something wrong in attempting to propagate a religion and you provoke people into indulging in terrible actions and then seek to justify that by saying that you are trying to prevent conversions, that is the mentality which has resulted in this terrible tragedy that has over taken Kandhamal.

          I am deeply sorry that the Government of Orissa felt fit to allow people who are provoking this kind of a thing, people, like Shri Pravin Togadia, to wander in the area while placing difficulties or even stopping others from going in where they needed to go in.

Will you please sit down?… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go in record except Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar.

(Interruptions) *…

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat Mr. Swain. 

श्री मणि शंकर अय्यर : माफ कीजिये, यहां पर सभ्यता की कोई कमी नहीं है। मैं आप से अनुरोध करता हूं कि मैंने इनके भाषण को सुनकर सोचा कि यह मेरा दायित्व बनता है कि मैं एक हिन्दुस्तानी के नाते, संविधान के समर्थक के नाते, यहां आकर समझाऊं कि हमारे संविधान में क्या लिखा है और किस किस्म की राजनीति हमारे साथी स्वाईं साहब और इनके साथीगण कर रहे हैं?… (Interruptions)

          Sir, kindly tell him to sit down?… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I am not allowing you Mr. Swain.  Nothing will go in record except Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat; I am not allowing you.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: How can you speak without the permission?      

… (Interruptions)

* Not recorded.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is not fair Mr. Swain. Nothing will go in record except Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar.

(Interruptions) *…

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: To continue with the remarks that I was attempting to make, we were asked a very important question by Shri Mahtab, which was: ‘Can we not allow the political leadership to prevail?’  In Orissa, we have an elected Government. It was with the support of the people that Shri Naveen Patnaik became the Chief Minister, and then again became the Chief Minister.  So, which is the political leadership that is to prevail in Kandhamal? Is it to be the political leadership of Shri Praveen Togadia?  Or, is it to be the political leadership of Shri Naveen Patnaik? For long before he became the Chief Minister of Orissa, he was a personal friend of mine and I have known that family since I was seven or eight years old.  I have no doubt that he is a secular person.  If Shri Naveen Patnaik is, as he says, and as I believe him to be, a secular person, then why is it that a secular individual running a secular Government failed the litmus test when it came up before him in the month of August?  Surely because there is not a link between 1994 and 2008 but because there is a link between you and Shri Kharabela Swain and his people; that is where the disease comes from.  I cannot believe that somebody like Shri Naveen Patnaik who went to the same school as I did, who read the same prayers as I did, who sang the same songs as I did, could possibly be communal.  But, if you get into bed with a snake, the snake is likely to bite you.  This communal bite has not come from within.  It is not swayambhu.  It is the result of being politically dependent upon a group of people who are determined to wreck the nature of our nation.… (Interruptions)

          Let me finish my argument.  Why do I call this a communal virus?  It is because the leader of Shri Kharabela Swain’s Party, who is regrettably not present in the House today – as he is the Leader of the Opposition; I am referring to Shri

 

* Not recorded.

L.K. Advani – has categorically stated that he sees no difference between rashtriyata and Bharatiyata and Hindutva. 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Right.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: I am glad that they are confirming this.  So, on a much earlier occasion, he stated that it is not enough for a Christian in India to call himself as an Indian Christian.[r44] 

          He really must call himself a Hindu Christian.  I have also stated that it is not enough for a Muslim in India to regard himself as an Indian Muslim.  He said that he must call himself a Hindu Muslim.  So, I then asked Mr. Advani a question, to which I still not received an answer, that if an Indian Muslim is a Hindu Muslim and if an Indian Christian is a Hindu Christian, then please tell me, are you a Hindu or a Hindu Hindu.  It is this inability to distinguish between a nation that is based upon a religion… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Swain, please take your seat. 

… (Interruptions)

 SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Shri Hannan Mollah, have you heard Shri Advani saying like that? … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please take your seat.

Nothing will go on record except what Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar says.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR:  It is this inability which equates one religion of India with the nation of India and regards the other religions of India as subordinate to that majority.  That is at the root of the kind of often atrocities that we have seen happen in Orissa. Until we batter this mindset, it will not be possible for us to rise to the occasion when the occasion demands. 

          I believe that Shri Biju Patnaik himself was a very secular human being. I believe that his family members are also secular.  I believe further that the Biju Janata Dal’s policies and principles are based upon secularism.  But owing to the nature of the Government that has been established in Orissa, these terrible incidents have happened.

My request to them is that if for political reasons you have to secure their support, take their support but do not allow this very communal mentality to infect your administration.  It is because that has happened with the tranquility and peace of Orissa, to which you drew attention, which is a characteristic of all Oriya Parties until the BJP started infiltrating your State has kept the place peaceful in fact. Of course, there is … (Interruptions)  This is why, I was very disturbed that you went on interrupting when you have been given the figures of how many
Christians there were or how many Hindus there were.  I do not think that matters … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar, please address the Chair.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR:  I think, I would like to request Shri Mahtab to intervene when he finds somebody dividing Indians, dividing Oriyas, and dividing the people of Kandhamal between how many Hindus there are and how many Christians there are. These are facts.  To try and draw a kind of conclusion that the BJP would give is, of course, what I expected the BJP.  To see that the BJD trying to draw the same conclusions completely breaks my heart because it means that a tiny irrelevant Party in Orissa, the BJP, is now beginning to capture the mindset of the Government.  It is distancing yourself from the mindset.  If you want to remain in power, you keep with them. But I am warning you that if you allow Praveen Togadia to wander and stop Shri Gurudas Dasgupta from going into the same district, it is going to result in the sort of a thing you have seen here. It is Shri Mahtab who underlined that even when it happen and as it appears subsequently, people who have nothing to do with the question of conversions but Maoists, terrorists, they were the ones who were responsible for the assassination of the Swami ji.   If some Maoist comes and kills the Swami ji, why should revenge be inflicted upon tens and thousands of innocent Christians, and what has that to do with the quarrel that may have taken place over land or economic inequality or even with regard to marketing? [H45]

These are real issues… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr. Swain, you have already spoken.  Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR:  Sir, these are the kind of real issues, which  I hoped, we would be hearing constructive answers today. Instead of which, we are told, we are given a lecture in the elementary geography of Orissa that in Kandhamal we have villages that are scattered  into the jungle area and that so many parts of Orissa are Maoist infested that  they do not immediately have the troops to pull them back  to Kandhamal district and that unlike in UP, where they  have decades of experience of dealing with communal riots, in Orissa because of peace and tranquility,  they did not quite know how to deal with them.  If the  argument had been restricted to that point, I would have thought that, may be, we should think about it. But  it does occur to me that since it is in precisely those densly forested areas of Southern Orissa,  that the Government of Orissa has been

 

* Not recorded.

 

tackling these  Maoists over such a long period of time, that they  would have had the experience of how to move quickly into an area, which is bursting into flames.  But they have the experience, they say, of dealing with Maoists, they do not have the experience of dealing with communal trouble. This is an admission of failure.

So,  after all if there had been a very quick administrative deployment into that area, if there had been a determination to say that people like Togadia  should be externed and people like Gurudas Dasgupta should be taken in, the entire secular forces of this country, without asking you to leave your  Government, would have been along with you in tackling  this communal menace.      

But it is the failure to recognize that  you need to mobilize secularism against the communalism of these people to your right. That is the root of the failure that we have seen in Kandhamal. I am sure that Kandhamal could have been dealt  with.  We do not say that there would not have been any incidents at all.  But that as soon as  we looked as if there was a conflagration, had the Government in Orissa moved in with  real will, real determination  and  a commitment to the secularism of Biju Patnaik, leave alone anyone else, I do not think, this kind of a thing would have happened.  That it has happened is a tragedy.

Now,  I think, we need to learn the right kind of lessons. The right kind of lessons lie in a reaffirmation  of the Constitutional provision that every Indian has the right to not only convert himself but to  attempt to convert others; and that cannot become  a causus  belli  for bringing about attacks without warrant on large numbers of innocent people.  If there is a need for assistance from the Centre, it should be asked for in good faith and secured.   With the Minister of State of Home Affairs sitting there in Bhubaneswar, every effort should have been made to get him into Kandhamal when he asked instead  of standing in his ways. Equally, every effort should have been made  by the Chief Minister to turn up  on the spot as quickly as he could.  Every effort should have been made by him  to dowse the fires.   But instead of that, instead of any of these actions being taken on the scale and with the speed at which it should have been taken,  we see the spectacle of Praveen Togadia wandering around  with his Trishl,  and the poor chap Gurudas Dasgupta being prevented from going in there. Is this the right attitude to bring towards a humanitarian problem, which calls upon you to protect the Constitution at the point  where the Constitution is being violated? That is the issue.

We are as proud as Shri Mahtab and all his colleagues from Orissa are, about the long and extremely valuable  history of Orissa, of the immense contribution that Orissa has made to the culture and civilization of India.  To people like Shri Madhusudan, who was referred to by our friend from Orissa who spoke just before me, who put his religion aside in order to ensure that there should be justice to the people of Orissa and to that legacy, then I ask you one question.

          If over these last 60 years, in contrast to several other parts of the country you have been able to preserve peace and tranquillity in Orissa, then what happened that the son of Biju Patnaik fell flat on his face when the first challenge came before him? There is no point in saying, I am secular in every bone of my body unless at the time that there is a challenge to that secularism, he remembers the words of Jawaharlal Nehru and says if any man raises his hand against another in the name of religion, I shall fight him till the last breath of my life, whether from within the Government or from outside. It is that Nehruvian test that you failed and in failing to implement this properly, you are failing the second test of Jawaharlal Nehru, the one that you read out in October, 1958. We cannot hope to preserve the secular ethos of Orissa unless you completely eschew the mindset of people like Shri Kharabela Swain.

         

 

 

 

*DR. PRASANNA KUMAR PATASANI (BHUBANESWAR): Sir, I would like to lay my statement on the important discussion. Some untoward incidents occurred in the State of Orissa. But we are taken every step to ease the situation. Hon’ble Speaker Sir, A package has been announced by the State Government for rehabilitation of the victims. This includes a cash compensation of Rs.2.00 lakhs for the next of kin of the deceased, a house building assistance of Rs.50,000/- for fully damaged houses, assistance for household articles and for restarting business etc. An assistance of Rs.2.00 lakhs has also been announced for public institutions such as schools, hostels, dispensaries, and hospitals etc which have been damaged in the riots.

Confidence building measures have been initiated by the District administration at the village level to facilitate return of the victims to their villages.

In the unfortunate incident of rape of a nun, eight persons have been arrested. A team of lady police officers led by an I.G. rank Officer (Mrs. B. Radhika, IPS) visited New Delhi to offer protection to the nun for her return to her home State and has also requested for her cooperation in identifying the accused. The nun has, however, declined to cooperate with the team. The Inspector-in-Charge of the concerned Police station, where the incident took place, has been placed under suspension for inordinate delay in investigation of the case. The I.G., Crime Branch is personally supervising the case.

The incidents which took place in Kandhamal district have a long history of suspicion and anger between different sections of people. There have been allegations that land belonging to the tribals have been usurped by non-tribals. There have also been allegations against persons of having taken advantage of reservation in jobs etc by false representation of their castes. The activities of naxalites in the District in the recent months have added another dimension to the complicated situation therein.

 

* Speech was laid on the Table.

The State Government has announced a number of measures to solve some of the basic problems of the people of the District. A special team of ten Inspectors of Police has been sent to the District in order to verify complaints relating to Caste certificates. Eight new tehsils are going to be opened in the District shortly so as to solve the land related problems of the people. Labour intensive works have been initiated in a large number of villages. Special steps are being taken to open 250 seated girl’s hostels in every Block where no such facility exists. A Special Administrator has been appointed for the District in order to oversee all the above measures.

This Government has a long track record of communal harmony for more than eight years during which there was no communal violence anywhere in the State except two unfortunate sets of incidents in the District of Kandhamal. The Government has appealed to all sections of the people in Kandhamal District to forget their differences of the past and return to their normal lives in a spirit of understanding and peace.

 

                                                                                                         

 

*SHRI SUGRIB SINGH (PHULBANI): I stand here to participate in the discussion on Communal tension prevailing in different parts of the country including Orissa from where I am representing. The situation is coming back normalcy. I would urge this House not to say something that would aggravate the situation there.  Let us not to do something that will disturb peace and tranquility.

The law and order situation which arose in the District of Kandhamal in the recent weeks was triggered by the murder of Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati on the night of 23.08.2008. As soon as the incident took place, the Chief Minister spoke to Union Home Minister and requested him to send additional CRPF personnel and a helicopter for movement of forces. Senior Police Officers and the R.D.C. (Southern Division) immediately rushed to the District. The available forces were deployed at sensitive places. But the movement of the forces was severely restricted due to   felling of large trees across the roads at about 100 places. The Central forces arrived after 27.08.2008. The riot was at its peak within this period i.e., from 23.08.2008 to 27.08.2008.    After 27.08.2008, there has been a significant decline in the number of violent incidents. All the major towns have been free of violence ever since. Police patrolling on motor cycles has been intensified and all important roads have been opened to traffic. Now there are 53 companies of Central Para Military Forces, besides armed police of the State Government etc. It should, however, be remembered that the District of Kandhamal has more than 2400 sparsely populated villages spread over an extremely hilly and afforested terrain. There have been sporadic incidents of clashes between different groups in different pockets of the District due to years of conflict for various reasons. All out effort is being made by the administration to put a complete stop to such incidents.

 

 

 

* Speech was laid on the Table.

There has been practically no incident of violence in the district of Kandhamal since 1st October, 2008.

The Crime Branch is investigating into all these cases relating to the District of Kandhamal. More than 1000 persons have so far been arrested from all over the State out of which 600 are from Kandhamal District alone. Three persons have been arrested in connection with the murder of the Swamiji.

A retired Judge of the High Court has been appointed by the State Government for judicial enquiry into the incidents. The Commission will visit the district very soon.

At the peak of the riots, the Government had provided shelter to 23,000 persons in different relief camps of Kandhamal District. They constitute about 20% of the Christian population of the District. Now the number of persons in the camps has come down to about 13,000.

The victims in the relief camps have been provided with free food, clothing, medical help, books for the children etc. Adequate security cover has been provided to these camps with the help of Central Para Military Forces. Registers have been opened in the different camps in order to record complaints of any threat or intimidation of physical attack or reconversion etc.

A package has been announced by the State Government for rehabilitation of the victims. This includes a cash compensation of Rs.2.00 lakhs for the next of kin of the deceased, a house building assistance of Rs.50,000/- for fully damaged houses, assistance for household articles and for restarting business etc. An assistance of Rs.2.00 lakhs has also been announced for public institutions such as schools, hostels, dispensaries, and hospitals etc which have been damaged in the riots.

Confidence building measures have been initiated by the District administration at the village level to facilitate return of the victims to their villages.

In the unfortunate incident of rape of a nun, eight persons have been arrested. A team of lady police officers led by an I.G. rank Officer (Mrs. B. Radhika, IPS) visited New Delhi to offer protection to the nun for her return to her home State and has also requested for her cooperation in identifying the accused. The nun has, however, declined to cooperate with the team. The Inspector-in-Charge of the concerned Police station, where the incident took place, has been placed under suspension for inordinate delay in investigation of the case. The I.G., Crime Branch is personally supervising the case.

The incidents which took place in Kandhamal district have a long history of suspicion and anger between different sections of people. There have been allegations that land belonging to the tribals have been usurped by non-tribals. There have also been allegations against persons of having taken advantage of reservation in jobs etc by false representation of their castes. The activities of naxalites in the District in the recent months have added another dimension to the complicated situation therein.

The State Government has announced a number of measures to solve some of the basic problems of the people of the District. A special team of ten Inspectors of Police has been sent to the District in order to verify complaints relating to Caste certificates. Eight new tehsils are going to be opened in the District shortly so as to solve the land related problems of the people. Labour intensive works have been initiated in a large number of villages. Special steps are being taken to open 250 seated girl’s hostels in every Block where no such facility exists. A Special Administrator has been appointed for the District in order to oversee all the above measures.

This Government has a long track record of communal harmony for more than eight years during which there was no communal violence anywhere in the State except two unfortunate sets of incidents in the District of Kandhamal. The Government has appealed to all sections of the people in Kandhamal District to forget their differences of the past and return to their normal lives in a spirit of understanding and peace.  With these words I would again appeal, do not divide the Society by your utterances.  Time is to live as brothers and sisters.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, Shri Asaduddin Owaisi.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. महताब जी, आप ऑलरेडी बोल चुके हैं।

SHRI B. MAHTAB : Is it not a debate?

MR. CHAIRMAN: No cross-talks.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Perhaps, he thinks that the lie repeated many times becomes the truth.… (Interruptions). There is a saying; lie repeated many times definitely becomes the truth.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have called the next name. Mr. Swain, please take your seat. I will allow Shri Asaduddin Owaisi.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record, except the speech of Shri Asaduddin Owaisi.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Asaduddin Owaisi, you should start your speech.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Owaisi, nothing will go on record, except your speech.

(Interruptions) …*

सभापति महोदय: टाइम वेस्ट हो रहा है, आपका कुछ भी रिकार्ड में नहीं जा रहा है।

          ओवेसी जी, आप अपना भाषण शुरु करिए। Without the permission of the Chairman, how can he speak?

 

 

 

 

 

* Not recorded.

 

 

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI (HYDERABAD): Sir, I rise, with a very heavy heart, to bring to the notice of the august House, especially the incidents which have taken place in our country in the last one-and-a-half years, wherein whenever a bomb blast takes place, whether it be in Hyderabad, Gujarat, Bangalore, Jaipur, Delhi, Kashmir, Orissa or anywhere else, an extremely dangerous thing of demonisation of the Muslim community, in particular, is taking place. … (Interruptions)  In your own good State, Orissa, despite you being there, people have been butchered.

          What I would like to bring to the august House, through you, is that, though all of us condemn these terrorist blasts and the people who have done such a heinous crime, the kind of demonization of Muslim community, in particular, which is taking place. It is an extremely dangerous thing that is happening. The reason being that forces, which are demonizing the whole Muslim community, have a political agenda, which was very directly and indirectly hinted by the hon. Minister, Mr. Mani Shankar Aiyar. Demonisation of a particular community, whether it is Christian or Muslim, leads to polarization.  Polarization in turn leads to political victories in elections. Now, what is the Government doing? It is the responsibility. मेरी शिकायत गैरों से नहीं है, अपनों से है।

          I was listening very vividly to the hon. MP from BJP.  He talked about Scheduled Tribes. But I failed to understand this. We have always seen him in the library, working, reading and increasing his knowledge. But, Sir, you see for a fact, the Scheduled Tribe Order, 1950 and the Hindu Code, the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, the Hindu Succession Act, 1956, the Hindu Minority and Guardianship Act, 1956 and the Hindu Adoption and Maintenance Act, 1956. Even the Census 2001 has a separate list to do a census of the Scheduled Tribes.

 

          All these four Acts which I have mentioned clearly say in the proviso that it does not apply to the Scheduled Tribes. Now, if a Scheduled Tribe person wants to change his religion, how can you call it a ‘Ghar Vapsi’ programme? The Scheduled Tribes are not Hindus. That is what the law says. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : No, it is not correct. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : That is what the law says. … (Interruptions) Sir, I am not yielding. … (Interruptions) I have listened to what they have said. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, what is this? … (Interruptions)

He is supporting conversions on the floor of the House. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : That is what the law says. You want to protect Hindus, you are free. … (Interruptions) Please understand. That is why if a Scheduled Tribe person wants…

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, what is this? … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please take your seat. Let Shri Owaisi speak.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Do you mean to say that the elected people of this country are wrong? … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : I will not listen to you. I will not listen to what you have to say. Please understand. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, it cannot be allowed. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : That is why if a Scheduled Caste person changes his religion, you cannot stop. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : You have not been able to do it since hundreds and thousands of years. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : We will not do it forcibly. Do not worry. … (Interruptions)

सभापति महोदय : अगर कोई अवांछित बात होगी, तो उसे देख लिया जायेगा।

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): Sir, what is wrong in what Mr. Owaisi is saying? … (Interruptions) What is going on here? Why are they obstructing him? … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : Sir, what you are saying is not right. I will not respond to you. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, he is justifying conversion. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : That is why if a Scheduled Caste person changes his religion to Christianity or Islam, he cannot get the benefit of Scheduled Caste. … (Interruptions) That is why there is a demand from the Muslim community and the Christian community that you amend Article 341. … (Interruptions) Yes, the Constitution allows conversion. It is a fundamental right. Right to religion is a fundamental right. … (Interruptions) No Tom, Dick and Harry like Shri Praveen Togadia or Sangh Pariwar can stop me from propagating my religion. I have all the right. Tomorrow if he believes that Islam is right, can I stop him from accepting Islam? I cannot. I hope he understands and reads it. That is a different thing. But propagation of religion is a fundamental right. … (Interruptions) Unfortunately you do not want to accept it.

          Now, coming back to the issue which I started with, take the case of bomb blasts. Whenever a bomb blast takes place, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is here, what happens? In my State, there was a blast in Mecca Masjid in May, 2007; in August, 2007 there were two blasts in Hyderabad after which 110 Muslim youths were picked up, 19 were booked and for six months they were in jail. One among them was kept in police special area. They were beaten up black and blue. Electric shocks were given in their private parts. After that, what do we know? Six youths who were arrested in Mumbai have confessed to the blasts in Lumbini Park and at Gokul Chat in Hyderabad. Who will give back the lives of those 19 Muslim boys whose reputations have been destroyed, whose jobs have been taken away who have been ostracized by the community over there and their neighbours have been calling them a terror? … (Interruptions) Please, Raja sahib, this is Parliament. This is not your residence in your feudal State. … (Interruptions) I am not yielding to you. I do not accept it from you. … (Interruptions) Who will return back the life to those 19 Muslim boys? What will happen to them?

श्री संतोष गंगवार (बरेली): जो लोग मारे गये, उनके बारे में भी तो बोलिये।…( व्यवधान)

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : Who will bring back the life to them? What will happen to them? One thing that has to be understood over here is this. I do not agree with that concept, that notion that this so-called ‘fasad’ that harassment of Muslims or Christians will only take place where you do not have a secular Government. This is a well-planned programme by all the forces who are hell bent in dividing India. I would like to request my friends over here that power is not eternal. Today it is the UPA, tomorrow it can be you, which I do not want you to be. But it is not eternal. But what will be left of India, I say, if we continue with this politics of hatred, divisiveness where antagonise the whole Muslim community, the whole Christian community, what will happen? It is you who are sowing the seeds of terrorism, it is not me, by your hate propaganda.

          How is it, hon. Home Minister, that after a bomb blast takes place in Hyderabad, within 10 to 15 minutes, your agencies selectively give information?    Your agencies have their blue-eyed boys in all national newspapers, in all TV channels where they say ‘Muslims are responsible, Muslim areas have become a haven of terrorists?’ Why can you not stop this? That is what I say. This is the UPA Government. This is a Government led by Dr. Manmohan Singh. This is not a Government led by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. …(Interruptions)

श्री असादूद्दीन ओवेसी: मैं कन्क्लूड कर रहा हूं।

सभापति महोदय : कन्क्लूड कीजिए।

श्री असादूद्दीन ओवेसी: इसीलिए हम बता रहे हैं कि बाटला हाउस का जो एनकाउंटर हुआ, मैं बराबर उसकी मज़म्मत करता हूं। शर्मा साहब को जो मारा गया, हम उसकी मज़म्मत करते हैं। जिन लोगों ने शर्मा साहब को मारा, हिन्दुस्तान के मुसलमान यह कहेंगे कि उनको सूली पर चढ़ाओ, वरना अगर कानून इजाजत देगा तो चौरास्ते पर रखकर गोली मारो।

मगर सवाल यह पैदा होता है कि मैं अगर यह मुतालबा करता हूं कि बाटला हाउस के बारे में इंक्वायरी होनी चाहिए, तो आपको कौन हक देता है कि मेरी वफादारी पर शक करें।  क्या आप कानून को फालो नही करेंगे?  आप जो कहेंगे, वह सच, हम जो कहेंगे, वह झूठ। लक्ष्मणानंद स्वामी को मारने वाले माओइस्ट थे, आप कह रहे हैं क्रिश्चियन, मुसलमान मारे तो इंडियन मुजाहिद्दीन, यानी क्रिश्चियन माओइस्ट हो गए, मुसलमान इंडियन मुजाहिद्दीन हो गए, आईएसआई हो गए, यह कब तक चलेगा? इसीलिए हुकूमत से हमारा मुतालबा है कि सबसे पहले आपको यह काम करना है कि आप अपनी एजेंसीज में, चाहे वह सेंट्रल आई. बी. हो, उसमें बड़े-बड़े ओहदों पर सेक्युलर जेहन रखने वाले आफीसर को लाइए। आपका नेशनल सिक्युरिटी एडवाइजर यह कहता है कि बजरंग दल पर हम पाबंदी इसलिए आयद नहीं कर सकते क्योंकि बजरंग दल आर्गेनाइजेशन नहीं है।  क्या यह मनमोहन सिंह जी की सोच है, क्या यह यूपीए की सोच है, मैं यह जानना चाहता हूं?  होम मिनिस्टर साहब आप हमें जवाब दीजिए। हिन्दुस्तान का मुसलमान यह जानना चाहता है कि क्यों आपका नेशनल सिक्योरिटी एडवाइजर यह कहता है कि बजरंग दल पर पाबंदी आयद नहीं करनी चाहिए। क्योंकि सन् 2002 के इंतेखाबाद के बाद मुसलमानों के सपोर्ट से इक्तेदार आपको मिला, आपका एडवाइजर यह कहता है कि बजरंगदल पर पाबंदी आयद नहीं करनी चाहिए। छः मुसलमानों को हिंदू वाहिनी के लोगों ने आदिलाबाद में जिंदा जलाकर मार दिया, मैंने जाकर लाशें उठायीं।  आपकी हुकूमत तेलंगाना बनाने के लिए सोच रही है।  अभी तेलंगाना नहीं बना तो हमारे जवानों को जिंदा जलाकर मारा जा रहा है। क्या आप तेलंगाना बनाकर हमको उन लोगों के हाथों में लड़ते हुए छोड़ देंगे?  याद रखिए, अगर तेलंगाना आप बनाएंगे, तो यकीनन दोनों तरफ इजाफा होगा। सियासी तौर पर …( व्यवधान)

सभापति महोदय :आप कंक्ल्यूड कीजिए।

…( व्यवधान)

सभापति महोदय : विषय पर आइए, विषय से बाहर मत जाइए। आप विषय से बाहर हैं।

…( व्यवधान)

श्री असादूद्दीन ओवेसी :अगर तेलंगाना आप बनाएंगे, …( व्यवधान) बीस किलोमीटर दूर है। …( व्यवधान)

सभापति महोदय : तेलंगाना अलग मामला है।

…( व्यवधान)

श्री असादूद्दीन ओवेसी :आप बैठ जाइए।  …( व्यवधान) जहां मुसलमानों पर हमला हुआ …( व्यवधान) यहां बैठकर बड़ी-बड़ी बातें करते हैं।  …( व्यवधान)   चुनाव से हमारा कोई ताल्लुक नहीं है।  …( व्यवधान)  हम यह अहम बात बोलना चाह रहे हैं।  अगर तेलंगाना बना तो इनकी सीट पर असर होगा, इनको अपनी टिकट की पड़ी है और मुझे अपनी जान की पड़ी है, मुझे अपने मुस्तकबिल की पड़ी है।

          आखिरी बात, गुजरात के बारे में सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने फैसला दिया।  साढ़े छः साल से गोधरा के जिन लोगों पर इल्जाम लगाया गया, जो लोग भी जिम्मेदार हैं, सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने कहा कि पोटा नहीं लगा सकते।  होम मिनिस्टर साहब आपकी हुकूमत क्या कर रही है?  नानावती कमीशन के जो कन्क्लूजन्स थे, सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने उनकी धज्जियां उड़ा दीं कि नहीं, उन पर पोटा नहीं लगाया जा सकता, तो आपकी मिनिस्ट्री क्या कर रही है?  आप मुझे बताइए।  हम आपसे जानना चाहते हैं कि क्या आप उन लोगों पर पोटा नहीं लगने देंगे?  आखिर में हम आपसे मुतालबा कर रहे हैं कि यूपीए की हुकूमत का यह तरीका नहीं चलने वाला है। आप उसूल की बुनियाद पर हमसे इंसाफ करिए, वरना हिंदुस्तान का जो नौजवान मुसलमान है, यकीनन मायूस हो रहा है।  सिस्टम से उसका ऐतमाद हट रहा है।  इसके बावजूद भी ऐसी जगहों से, इस ऐवान से, हिंदुस्तान के तमाम जस्टिसों से उनको इंसाफ की उम्मीद है।  अगर इंसाफ नहीं मिलेगा, तो यकीनन इन तमाम चीजों में इजाफा होगा।  अगर ये ऐवान, ये गवर्नमेंट, ये प्राइम मिनिस्टर इंसाफ नहीं करेंगे, तो कौन करेगा?  हमें कौन देगा इंसाफ? इंसाफ करिए, जो जानमाल पर हमला है, उसे रोकिए।  आपके इंसाफ करने से, दिलों और दिमागों को साफ करने से ही इंसाफ किया जा सकता है। 

 

 

 

*SHRI BRAHMANANDA PANDA (JAGATSINGHPUR):  Sir, I would like to deliberate in the discussion by honourable members.  The Crime Branch is investigating into all these cases relating to the District of Khandhamal. More than 1000 persons have so far been arrested from all over the State out of which 600 are from Khandhamal District alone.  Three persons have been arrested in connection with the murder of the Swamiji.

Honourable Chief Minister made all efforts to control the situation.  The Centre did not send CRPF personnel and helicopter till 27 August, 2008.

A retired judge of the High Court has been appointed by the State Government for judicial enquiry into the incidents. The Commission will visit the district very soon.

At the peak of the riots, the Government had provided shelter to 23,000 persons in different relief camps of Kandhamal District. They constitute about 20% of the Christian population of the District. Now the number of persons in the camps has come down to about 13,000.

The victims in the relief camps have been provided with free food, clothing, medical help, books for the children etc. Adequate security cover has been provided to these camps with the help of Central Para Military Forces. Registers have been opened in the different camps in order to record complaints of any threat or intimidation of physical attack or reconversion etc.

Government of Orissa has also announced to set up fast track courts for trial of criminal cases expeditiously for imparting justice to the victims.

Just to malign the image popular image of our State Government. Such unnecessary remarks are made which is unfortunate.

 

 

* Speech was laid on the Table.

 

Now, as you know, peace and tranquility is prevailing in the Khandhmal area.  Day Curfew has been lifted. Night Curfew has also been lifted and people have returned to their houses, and they are leading a very happy and peaceful life.  In such circumstances, initiation of this discussion is unwarranted.

I would like to further highlight that Mr. Madhusudan Das, who was the maker of Modern Orissa, was a Christain and he fought for Lord Jagannath Temple.

 

 

 

 

श्री सानछुमा खुंगुर बैसीमुथियारी (कोकराझार) : आदरणीय सभापति जी, मैं आपका बहुत आभार व्यक्त करता हूं। आज हिंदुस्तान में चाहे उड़ीसा हो, चाहे कर्नाटक हो, चाहे तमिलनाड़ु हो, चाहे असम हो, सब जगह माइनेरिटी लोगों के ऊपर जो इतने जुल्म हो रहे हैं, उसकी मैं निंदा करता हूं। माइनेरिटी बोलने का अर्थ सिर्फ ऐसे धर्मियों की, जिनकी संख्या कम है, सिर्फ उन लोगों को माइनेरिटी नहीं कहा जा सकता है।  हमारे असम में जितने बोडो ट्राइबल लोग हैं, वे भी भाषा के तौर पर और कल्चर के तौर पर माइनेरिटीज हैं। मैं आप सभी लोगों को एक बहुत तकलीफ की बात बताना चाहता हूं।  जिस घटनाक्रम को मैंने विगत दिनांक 20 अक्टूबर को इस सदन में उठाने की कोशिश की थी।     

          अक्टूबर महीने की 3 और 4 तारीख को असम के बोडोलैंड सुशासित अंसल के उदलगुरी नाम के एक जिले और उसके अगल-बगल के दोरांग जिले में हमारे इनडिजीनस बोडो ट्राइबल, गारो ट्राइबल, असम के बेगुनाह लोगों के ऊपर, नान-मुस्लिम लोगों के ऊपर आक्रमण किए गए। आज तक कम से कम पचास बोडो आदिवासी ट्राइबल लोगों के गांव जला दिये गये। कम से कम पचास बोडो आदमी, गारो आदमी, असमी आदमी, बंगाली बेगुनाह आदमियों को अपनी जान देनी पड़ी। यह सारी घटना पुलिस के सम्मुख हुई, सीआरपीएफ की आंखों के सामने हुई। दोरांग जिले के एक एसपी, जो रिलीजियस माइनॉरिटी के हैं, उनकी गाड़ी रास्ता खराब होने की वजह से स्टकअप हो गयी थी। उन्होंने तीन गारो लोगों से कहा कि मेरी गाड़ी को थोड़ा धक्का लगा दीजिए। उन्होंने गाड़ी को धक्का लगा दिया। एसपी के सम्मुख ही तीन माइनॉरिटी के लोगों को लैथल वैपन से खत्म कर दिया गया, लेकिन उन्होंने उन्हें बचाने के लिए कुछ नहीं किया। झार गांव में 75 साल की एक बोडो बुढ़िया को घर में जिन्दा जला दिया गया। झकुआपरण नाम के गांव में एक परिवार के तीन बोडो लोगों को जीवित जला दिया गया। कम से कम एक लाख बोडो ट्राइबल लोगों, गारो लोगों को आज रिलीफ कैम्प में जिंदगी गुजारनी पड़ रही है। आज तक उनके लिए सुरक्षा के इंतजाम नहीं हो पाए। असम में पुलिस प्रशासन टोटली फेल्योर हुआ है। बोडोलैंड के एमएलए, मंत्री ने 30 सितम्बर को  मुख्य मंत्री के पास जाकर एक दरखास्त दी कि अमुक-अमुक गांव में कई कत्ल हो गये हैं और वहां पुलिस पिकेट देने की जरूरत है। मुख्य मंत्री ने आर्डर भी दे दिया, लेकिन उनके उस आर्डर को डीजीपी ऑफिस से सेबोटेज किया गया। उसके कारण तीन और चार तारीख, दो दिन में कम से कम दो हजार बोडो परिवारों के घर जला दिए गए। सरकार की  तरफ से कुछ केन्द्रीय मंत्री और लीडर्स को वहां भेजा गया था, लेकिन वे कुछ रिलीफ कैम्प देखकर चले आए। जो गांव जल गए, उन्हें देखने कोई नहीं गया। इसलिए मैं मांग करता हूं कि वहां जो हिंसक कांड हुआ, उस बारे में सीबीआई या सुप्रीम कोर्ट के सिटिंग जज के जरिए शीघ्र इन्क्वारी करवाई जाए और दोषी लोगों को सजा दी जाए। हम 20 तारीख को प्रधान मंत्री जी से मिले थे और 21 तारीख की सुबह गृह मंत्री जी से मिलकर अपनी दरखास्त दी कि उदलगुरी में जो कांड हुआ, उसके ऊपर इंक्वायरी कराने की जरूरत है।…( व्यवधान)

सभापति महोदय : अब आप कनक्लूड कीजिए।

श्री सानछुमा खुंगुर बैसीमुथियारी: 19 अक्टूबर की शाम को एक असमी औरत और एक बोडो औरत के साथ सीआरपीएफ की नाइन्थ बटालियन के जवानों ने रेप किया, लेकिन उनके ऊपर आज तक कोई कार्यवाही नहीं हो पाई। I have drawn the attention of the hon. Union Home Minister through the hon. Speaker. I have submitted one complaint letter in writing on 28th October, but nothing has been done so far. 

Under the on-going present situation, the indigenous Bodo tribal people cannot coexist within the State of Assam for any longer period. In this situation, I would like to appeal to the Government of India to take active steps to reorganize Assam and to create a separate State of Bodoland. The need for balkanization of Assam has emerged and it is the need of the hour. It is the only lasting solution to the political problems and the sentiments of the Indian Bodo people in the State of Assam. इसलिए मैं आपके  माध्यम से मांग करना चाहता हूं कि वहां जो कांड हुआ, उसके ऊपर इंक्वायरी करने, देखभाल करने के बारे में कदम उठायें? हमारा कहना है कि उसे देखने के लिए आपको लोक सभा और राज्य सभा की तरफ से एक ज्वाइंट पार्लियामैंट्री कमेटी बनाने की जरूरत है।  श्री सोनिया गांधी जी ने संभवतः 8 अक्टूबर को श्री ई. अहमद, एमओएस, एक्सटर्नल अफेयर्स को वहां पर भेजा, लेकिन वह सिर्फ दो रिलीफ कैम्प ही देखकर वापिस आ गये और जिन गांवों को जलाया गया था, उसे वे देखकर नहीं आये।  उसके बाद अक्टूबर की 11-12 तारीख को श्री मुकुटमिठी को सभापति बनाकर तीन सदस्यीय कमेटी वहां भेजी गयी, जिनमें श्री शकील अहमद, एमओएस, होम अफेयर्स और मिस्टर खान, एमपी सदस्य थे। What is it that they have seen over there? They have not visited the affected villages. They have visited only some relief camps. What have they seen by visiting one or two relief camps? So, I would like to appeal to the hon. Home Minister to come down to my place, to come to those affected areas.

              (Shri Giridhar Gamang )

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.

SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : I would like to appeal to the Government of India to conduct a high-level inquiry into the heinous crime and the gory incidents which took place in Udalguri and Darrang districts either by the CBI or by a sitting Judge of the Supreme Court of India. At the same time, I would like to appeal to this august House to set up a Joint Parliamentary Committee to visit those affected areas so that the nation can come to know what is really happening over there. I would like to appeal to the Government of India to punish all the culprits who indulged in the gang rape of one Indian Bodo lady and one Assamese lady.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude, there are other speakers also.

SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : I would like to reiterate our much long-awaited demand to have a separate State of Bodoland. Without the creation of a separate State of Bodoland, the safety and security and the sovereignty of the Bodo people of Assam will not be possible at all. So, the balkanization of Assam is the need of the hour, and this is the only lasting solution to our problems.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The subject is different and you are talking on a different subject. 

 

 

 

श्री रामदास आठवले (पंढरपुर) : सभापति महोदय, एक बहुत ही गंभीर विषय पर हम लोग इस अगस्त हाउस में चर्चा कर रहे हैं।परमपूज्य बाबासाहेब अम्बेडकर जी ने इस देश को संविधान दिया। उस संविधान के मुताबिक किसी भी जाति, धर्म और भाषा का आदमी हो, हम सब लोगों ने एक दूसरे से प्रेम करने की प्रतीज्ञा ली थी। हमारे देश में छः धर्म के लोग रहते हैं, छः हजार से भी ज्यादा जातियों के लोग रहते हैं, अनेक भाषाओं के लोग यहां रहते हैं, अगर आज देखा जाये, तो संविधान को स्वीकारने के बाद हमने 58 साल पूरे किये हैंऔर 59 वां साल हम पूरा करने जा रहे हैं, लेकिन चाहे हिन्दू-मुसलमान का झगड़ा हो, हिन्दू-दलित का झगड़ा हो, हिन्दू-क्रिश्चियन का झगड़ा हो, मतलब इस तरह का जो संघर्ष चल रहा है। …( व्यवधान)

 

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Athawale, please resume your seat.

         It is six o’clock now and there are three more Members who wish to participate in the discussion. If the House agrees, the time of the sitting can be extended till seven o’clock.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The time of the sitting is extended till 7 pm.

          Shri Athawale, please continue.

श्री रामदास आठवले : मैं बता रहा था कि भारत देश के आदमी ही, भारत के आदमियों की हत्या करना, बम ब्लास्ट करना, भाषा के नाम पर मुंबई में नार्थ-इण्डियन लोगों का विरोध करना, हिन्दुओं द्वारा बाबरी मस्जिद को गिराना, किसी के द्वारा मंदिर को गिराना, किसी अन्य द्वारा मस्जिद या गुरूद्वारे को गिराना, इन चीजों से हमारे देश की एकता को बहुत बड़ा खतरा पैदा हो रहा है। मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि स्वामी लक्ष्मणानंद जी की हत्या हुई, उसकी जांच करवाएं।  पाटिल जी यहां बैठे हैं।  जिन लोगों ने स्वामी जी की हत्या की उनके खिलाफ कठोर कार्यवाही की जाए, लेकिन वहां जो क्रिश्चियन माइनॉरिटी के लोग रहते हैं, उनके ऊपर हमला नहीं होना चाहिए। … * चर्च पर हमला हुआ, बहुत सारे लोगों को मारने का प्रयत्न किया गया है। क्या यही बात हमारे संविधान में बताई गयी हे? बम ब्लास्ट करने वाला व्यक्ति चाहे हिन्दू हो या मुसलमान या फिर कोई अन्य, उस पर कार्यवाही करनी चाहिए, लेकिन मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि कोई

 

* Not recorded.

समाज आतंकवादी नहीं हो सकता है।मैं आपके ध्यान में लाना चाहता हूं कि हमारे देश में आज यह जो मुस्लिम आतंकवाद है, वह आडवाणी जी ने जब सोमनाथ से राम रथ यात्रा निकाली,हिन्दुओं को भड़काने का प्रयत्न किया और छः दिसंबर, 1992 को अयोध्या में बाबरी मस्जिद को गिराया, उसके बाद शुरू हुआ। मैं बम ब्लास्ट करने वालों का समर्थन नहीं करता हूं, बम ब्लास्ट करने वालों को फांसी दे दीजिए, लेकिन पूरी मुस्लिम कम्यूनिटी आतंकवादी है, यह कहना उचित नहीं है, इसलिए मैं मांग करना चाहता हूं कि इसका सपोर्ट कीजिए। बजरंग दल और आरएसएस पर बैन लगाने की आवश्यकता है।ये संगठन बीजेपी को ज्यादा बदनाम कर रहे हैं।अगर आप लोगों को ठीक से काम करना है, तो उनके ऊपर बैन लगाने के बारे में आप एनाउंस कीजिए। जब तक उन पर बैन नहीं लगेगा, चाहे कर्नाटक हो या उड़ीसा, इस तरह की घटनाएं नहीं रूकेंगी। इसके साथ ही मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि मुंबई में जो भी संगठन आज भाषावाद के नाम पर उत्तर भारतीय लोगों का विरोध कर रहे हैं, जो बोलते हैं कि मुंबई उनके बाप की जागीर है, मैं उनको बताना चाहता हूं कि मुंबई उनके बाप की जागीर नहीं है।मुंबई इस देश की आर्थिक राजधानी है और वहां किसी भी व्यक्ति को आकर रहने का अधिकार है। …( )

आप अपनी बात कन्क्लूड कीजिए।

मैं ऐसे लोगों को समझाना चाहता हूं कि दिल्ली शहर में हमारे तीन-चार लाख मराठी लोग रहते हैं, गुजरात में दस लाख मराठी लोग रहते हैं, इसी तरह देश के अन्य प्रमुख शहरों में लाखों मराठी लोग रहते हैं। इसलिए मराठी लोगों के लिए काम करना तो ठीक है, लेकिन हिन्दीभाषी लोगों का अगर कोई विरोध करता है तो वह बाबा साहेब अम्बेडकर की पार्टी, रिपब्लिकन पार्टी उसका विरोध करेगी।यह मुंबई शहर किसी के बाप की जागीर नहीं है।…( )

आठवले जी, अब आप बैठ जाइए।आपकी बात रिकॉर्ड में नहीं जा रही है।

…( ) *