Further Discussion On Situation Arising Out Of Floods In Various … on 30 August, 2007

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Title: Further discussion on situation arising out of floods in various parts of the Country, raised by Shri Ananth Kumar on the 14th August, 2007.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, the hon. Minister, Prof. Soz.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the discussion on floods is not yet completed, according to me. … (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI):  Sir, I respectfully report that the allotted time for the Discussion on Floods was six hours but the Discussion on Floods, I think, has already taken more than eight and a half hours.  If you want to continue the discussion now, then there is no end for this discussion.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: iÉBÉE®ÉÒ¤ÉxÉ ºÉ£ÉÉÒ {ÉÉÉÌ]ªÉÉå BÉEä ºÉnºªÉ <ºÉ {É® ¤ÉÉäãÉ SÉÖBÉEä cé*

…( व्यवधान)

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Sir, may I make a request to the hon. Minister of Parliamentary Affairs?  Members from some political parties have not been given a chance to participate in this discussion. 

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI: If any political party is left out, then the hon. Deputy-Speaker will certainly decide.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Only Shri K. Yerrannaidu is there.

… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय:  JÉxxÉÉ VÉÉÒ, +ÉÉ{ÉxÉä VÉÉä BÉÖEU BÉEcxÉÉ cè, ÉÊãÉJÉ BÉE® nä nä* That will form part of the records.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please sit down.  I will give you some time. आपको एक-एक मिनट का समय मिलेगा।

…( व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Now, Shri K. Yerrannaidu. [R66] 

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, every year and in every Session we are discussing floods, drought and other natural calamities.  The Government of India has not taken permanent measures in this regard.

            We are not thinking as to how to avoid floods.  Whenever floods come, then we discuss floods on the floor of the House.  Now, you take any river.  If there is a heavy rain, then we have floods.  There is no bund on any river.  Every State is making a request to the Government of India to provide money for constructing river bunds to avoid floods but the Government of India is not supporting them financially.  With a meagre amount of money, they could not do anything.  That is why, we are facing floods every year.  Take certain rivers – Krishna, Ganga, Mahanadhi, Vamsadhara and Nagavali.   The last two rivers are flowing in my district.  My humble request to the Government of India is to have a permanent solution.  The Government of India can have a five-year plan in this regard.  We have to construct river bunds in the whole country.   The Central Government must prepare a plan as to how much money is required for this purpose and how much money they can provide to the State Governments.  Take the case of the Calamity Relief Fund, where the Central Government is providing 75 per cent and the State Government is providing 25 per cent.  In a similar way, the Central Government can prepare one Scheme for the construction of river bunds.  If they do it, then we can avoid floods. 

            The second point is inter-linking of rivers.  By inter-linking of rivers, we can avoid floods, we can avoid drought and we can provide employment to many people in the country.  Under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme, every year the Central Government is providing Rs. 12,000 crore, and in five years the Central Government is providing Rs. 60,000 crore.  For inter-linking of rivers, the Central Government can provide Rs. 1 lakh crore in ten years.  If that is done, then we can provide employment, we can avoid floods, and  we can provide safe drinking water to the people of this country.  These are the advantages of inter-linking of rivers.  Already the Task Force has given its Report to the Government of India.  Even the Supreme Court also gave a direction to the Government of India to go ahead with inter-linking of rivers.  Money is not the criterion.  Now, the Indian economy is growing.  We are achieving 10 per cent GDP.  Money is not at all a problem.  Where there is a will, there is a way. 

            Everybody was laughing at the time of starting of the Golden Quadrilateral project and now everybody is feeling very happy about it.  Now, we are connected from Kashmir to Kanyakumari, from Porbandar to Silchar.  That is why, the Central Government has to think about the permanent solution in this regard.

            This is the Indian Parliament.  We are discussing about floods and droughts.  Since this Government came into power, Andhra Pradesh witnessed four times floods, one time Tsunami, and three times drought.  In last July, Andhra Pradesh witnessed floods.  So, Andhra Pradesh witnessed floods and drought for eight times in the last three years and two months.  The Government of India is sending the Central team.[R67]           For what purpose they are sending the Central team when the Report has been submitted to them?  I am posing this question to the Government of India.  Is there any validity?  After submitting the Report, they are immediately releasing the money to the State Government.  Why are they sending the Central teams?  According to me, there is no use of sending the Central team after submitting the Report to the Government of India.  The Government of India has to do something from the National Contingency Fund and the National Calamity Relief Fund. But they are giving only Rs. 700 crore for the entire country under the National Calamity Relief Fund. Even the 10th, 11th and 12th Finance Commissions have successively said about the National Calamity Fund  that if the situation is very serious, then we have to provide funds to the concerned State Governments.  But in the Budget   they are not creating anything.  In that case, how can they   provide money out of this National Contingency Fund?

            Sir, there is a Committee under the chairmanship of the hon. Home Minister where hon. Agriculture Minister is also there.  What is the use of having such a Committee when there is no money earmarked for this purpose? Without money what can they do?  They are only convening meetings and not providing money to the affected State Governments.

            Sir, I would give one example.   In the last three years and three months, the Government of Andhra Pradesh, on seven occasions,  had requested  the Government of India  for providing Rs. 13,300 crore.  This was the damage assessed by the Central teams.  But what we got was only Rs. 400 crore; and 5 lakh metric tonne of rice.   But what is the real position?

            These are all shortfalls and short gaps.  Therefore, I would request the Government of India to systematically plan.  There are mainly two-three issues where they should concentrate more.  In the case of severe droughts, serious floods, cyclone and super cyclone, the Government should provide money to the affected States from the National Contingency Fund.   Fund from the CRF is minimal.  Even the Finance Commission has earmarked such funds for each State.  Secondly, in the situation of floods, the Union Government should think of permanent remedies, viz., interlinking of rivers, construction of flood banks to the major rivers, etc.  Then, they should also provide more money under the National Calamity Relief Fund. This way, they may choose two-three most important areas and find solutions to such problems.

            Sir, these are some of my suggestions to the Government of India. Otherwise, we would not reach anywhere.  By mere discussion, we would not be able to solve these problems.

            With these few words, I conclude.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  I would make a request that those hon. Members who want to lay their written speeches on the Table of the House, they may do so. Their speeches would form part of the proceedings.

            Secondly, Mr. Soz, you have already spoken for 10 minutes on the earlier occasion .

THE MINISTER OF WATER RESOURCES (PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ): Sir, I would take just five minutes.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: As a special case, I invite you to speak.

श्री अनिवाश राय खन्ना (होशियारपुर): मेरी कांस्टीटुएंसी में बहुत नुकसान हुआ है, इतना कुछ होने के बाद भी अभी तक हम अपने पैरों पर नहीं खड़े हो पाए हैं।

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY (SABARKANTHA): Sir, if he starts, then others would also start.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Yes. You may give your speech, in writing. +É¤É àÉé ÉÊàÉxɺ]® BÉEÉä BÉEÉìãÉ BÉE® SÉÖBÉEÉ cÚÆ*

श्री हरिकेवल प्रसाद : महोदय, हर साल देश के किसी न किसी हिस्से में बाढ़ आती है जिससे जन-धन की व्यापक क्षति होती है। पुर्वी उत्तर प्रदेश और उत्तरी विहार तो लगभग हर साल बाढ़ वभषिका का शिकार होता है। बाढ़ को रोकने के लिये राष्ट्रीय स्तर पर योजना बनायी जाती है लेकिन उस पर अमल नहीं होता है। केवल अति वृष्टि ही बाढ़ का कारण नहीं है इस लिये यिद इस समस्या का स्थायी हल निकालना है तो इसके कारणों को भी ध्यान में रखना होगा। देश के अधिकांश नदियों के पेंदे में रेत जमा होती जा रही है जिससे वे उथली हो गयी है और उनकी जल धारण क्षमता कम हो गयी है। थोड़ी सी बरसात में ही उनमें उफान आ जाता है जिससे आस पास के क्षेत्र प्रभावित होते है। बहुत साल पहले नदियों का गहरा करने की योजना बनी थी लेकिन वह फाइलों में ही दब कर रह गयी। इसी तरह नदियों को जोड़ने की परियोजना भी दम तोड़ रही है। पूर्वी उत्तर प्रदेश में बाढ़ आने का कारण केवल मैदानी क्षेत्रों में अतिबृष्टि नहीं है। इस क्षेत्र की अधिकांश नदियां हिमालय की गोंद से निकलीं है। इस लिये मैदानी इलाके में भारी वर्षा हो या न हो, जब पहाड़ पर बरसात होती है तो बाढ़ मैदानी इलाके में आती है। केन्द्र की सरकारों की उपेक्षा और उदासीनता के चलते पूर्वाचल के करोड़ों लोग इस आपदा के शिकार होते हैं। पहली बार पूर्वाचल की बाढ़ को स्थायी रूप से रोकने के लिये १९५४ में पंचेश्वर, करनाली तथा भालू नाकक स्थान पर बांध बनाकर पानी को एक जलाशय में छोड़ने तथा उसे नियंत्रित तरीके से नदियों में पानी देने की योजना बनायी गयी। इस योजना के तहत करनाली से घाघरा नदी, पंचेश्वर से शारदा नदी और भालू बांध से राप्ती नदी की बाढ़ समाप्त होती। इसके साथ ही इस पूरी प्रक्रिया के दौरान कुल १२ हजार मेंगावाट बिजली उत्पादन का भी प्रस्ताव था। तत्कालीन नेपाल सरकार की सहमति के बावजूद भारत सरकार द्वारा इस परियोजना पर कार्य प्रारम्भ नहीं कराया गया। तब इसकी लागत केवल ३४ करोड़ रूपये थी। दूसरी बार श्री जयसुखलाल हाथी के नेतृत्व में, जल आयोग का गठन १९७४ में किया गया जिसने इस बात पर आश्चर्य प्रकट किया कि इतनी महत्वपूर्ण परियोजना को पूरा क्यों नहीं कराया गया। इस आयोग की रिपोर्ट के बाद केन्द्र सरकार दो बार नेपाल से बात चीत शुरू की। तब तक इस पिरयोजना की लागत बढ़कर २ हजार करोड़ हो गयी थी। भारी लागत को देखते हुए इसे ठंढे बस्ते में डाल दिया गया। यदि केन्द्र सरकार इमानदारी के साथ पूर्वाचल की बाढ़ समस्या का स्थायी हल चाहती है तो इस परियोजना को पूरा करावे। इससे विद्युत संकट भी समाप्त होगा। देश के अनेक हिस्सों के साथ पूर्वाचल में आयी प्रलयकारी बाढ़ में बारासंकी, गोंडा, बस्ती, सिद्धार्थनगर, महाराजगंज, गोरखपुर, कुर्शीनगर, देवरियां, बलियां आदि

* The speech wasLaid on the Table.

जनपदों की लहलहाती फसलें बरसाद हो गई है और उक्त जनपदों में हजारों लोग नदी में डुबकर, मकान गिरने से तथा अतिवृष्टि के कारण पोखरे, कुएं में गिरने से मौत के मूह में चले गये हजारों परिवारों को छोटी गंडक, नारायणी, घाघरा, राप्ती गंगा, कुर्ना आदि नदी नालों के कटाव से नदी में विलीन हो गये। नदी पार करते समय सैकडों लोग बह गये। बन्धों पर आज भी लोग आसमान के तले जीवन यापन कर रहे हैं। सरकार की ओर से न नाव की व्यवस्था हुई न पशुओं के लिए चारे की व्यवस्था की गई। स्वयं सेवी संस्थाओं द्वारा जगह-जगह लंगर के द्वारा भोजन दिया जा रहा है। सरकार की उपेक्षा से बाढ़ पीड़ित एवं अति बृष्टि परिवारों में जनरोस पैदा हो गया है मेरे लोक सभा एवं देवरिया जनपद में रूप्रपुर व बरहज तहसील की दशा अत्यंत सोचनीय है। बरहज तहसील में परसियां देवार परसियां कुर्ह, विशुनपुरा, रगरगंज आदि गांवां की दशा अत्यंत दयनिय है कपरवार से परसियां कुर्ह तक रिंग बंधा बनवाने, कटइलवां से बरहज तक कटाव रोकने तथा रागरगंज के पास घाघरा की मुख्य धारा को मोड़ने, रामजानकी मार्ग की हीफाजत करने, मेहियवां से पैना हाते हुए तेलियां, भागलपुर, पिण्डी, चुड़िया नदौली तक कटाव रोकने हेतु तकनीक टीम भेजने तथा छोटी गंडक नदी के किनारे मेहरौना से पटना, रतनपुरा, सलेमपुर, भरहे चौराहा, मलहटोला भटनी से सठीयांव होते हुए छोटी गंउक नदी के किनारे सर्वेक्षण कराकर कटाव रोकने की कारगर व्यवस्था की मांग की जाती रही है। आप के माध्यम से भारत सरकार से मांग करता हूं कि उत्तर प्रदेश् सरकार को विशेष पैकेज देकर और निर्देश देकर बाढ़ पीडितों को राहत देने तथा बाढ़ को रोकने की स्थायी व्यवस्था करें।

 

 

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, first of all, I must thank the hon. Members of this august House because cutting across party lines, they showed concern for this gigantic problem of floods. 

            So many suggestions were made and I made copious notes of them.  I stand here to reply to the points that have been raised by the hon. Members that pertain to my Ministry.  I would be very brief because I know  that we do not have that much time. 

            After thanking the hon. Members, and rather congratulating them for debating this issue, let me be frank that  I was here in the Lok Sabha for four terms, and I have never seen  a marathon debate like this, because this debate started on 14th August, 2007 and all the time I was wanting to speak something and responding  to the suggestions of the hon. Members.

            From Shri Ananth Kumar right up to my friend Shri  Yerrannaidu, I found that some Members, at least, made suggestions, which are common to all the 45 Members, who participated in the debate. Therefore, I would explain those six to seven points   for the whole House.[r68]   

18.00 hrs.

            First is interlinking of rivers. There is a misconception that this Government has not taken up interlinking of rivers vigorously. That impression is wrong. I want to inform the House that the Task Force on Interlinking of Rivers instituted by the earlier Government completed its job in 2004, and since then their recommendations are being implemented. Interlinking of rivers has not been relegated to the background.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Soz, please give me one minute. +ÉMÉ® +ÉÉìxÉ®ä¤ÉãÉ àÉèà¤ÉºÉÇ AOÉÉÒ cÉå iÉÉä cÉ=ºÉ BÉEÉ ºÉàÉªÉ ABÉE PÉÆ]É ¤ÉfÃÉ ÉÊnªÉÉ VÉÉA*

अनेक माननीय सदस्य : ठीक है।

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF CHEMICALS AND FERTILIZERS AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI B.K. HANDIQUE): Let the House be extended till the reply is given.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: All right.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ:  My only appeal to my colleagues, hon. Members,  here is this. Maybe, I generate hope for the whole nation as a citizen through my intervention. But I would request you to hear from me the entire statement and then if there are any questions, I will answer those questions. I have studied the problem minutely.

            About interlinking of rivers, I want to make an assertion that interlinking of rivers is just on the front burner and not on the back burner. We must realize that it is a State subject. The States have to agree with each other. The earlier Task Force proposed DPR. The Terms of Reference for that have been accepted by us. In the Peninsular situation, that is, in the Southern situation, out of 16 feasibility reports, 14 are ready and two are in the process. We shall be having feasibility reports on the entire Peninsular situation.

            Five links are in very sharp focus. First is, you know, Ken-Betwa, and we have proceeded on that further. Now, the DPR is being prepared. It was said that it would take three years. I told engineers and experts, for God’s sake, prepare it in two years.… (Interruptions)

            I have requested you to listen. Yes, I will answer. I will not run away. I will answer every point that will be raised.

            So, DPR is a very difficult situation, and they are working very hard. It will take three years or less time as I am telling them. But it is a situation of hope that Ken-Betwa will come up.

            On four more links, we are vigorously following with the State Governments. The second link is, Parbati-Kalisindh-Chambal between Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan. An MoU has been provided to them, and I am in touch with the Chief Ministers. Any time the nation will hear this good news that Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan have agreed. They have accepted the MoU. They are having discussions. Our Central Water Commission is in between them helping them. This will, I hope, come up very shortly.

            Third is Narmada Par-Tapi link between Gujarat and Maharashtra. We have sent the MoU as recently as 17th of April 2007. We provided the MoU to them, and we are in touch with the Chief Ministers. Then, fourth is Daman-Ganga-Painjal link between Gujarat and Maharashtra. We have provided to them on 17th April, 2007 an MoU, and they are discussing amongst them. Then, the fifth link is Godavari, which is known as the link between Pollavaram and Krishna. It is connecting Orissa, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Chhattisgarh. We are in touch with the hon. Chief Ministers.

            Since it is a State subject, the States have to agree. We are only coordinating the effort. We are taking it very seriously. I can tell you that some of us may not be working but most of the Indians are working and I can tell this House that I found to my surprise that the Task Force instituted by the hon. Prime Minister for flood management has done a commendable work in the Central Water Commission. I express my thanks to them.

            I want to tell you that some institutions in India have become very strong. [MSOffice69] In the Central Ground Water Board, The Central Ground Water Authority, the Central Water Commission people have been working very hard. Therefore, inter-linking of rivers is in the forefront and it is receiving great attention from the Ministry. There will be a day when these five links will come up. The other links will also come in in the course.

            I was referring to the common points raised by the hon. Members. The second point raised was that advance action was not taken. Please allow me to say that advance action is to be taken by the State Governments and should they require assistance and help from the Central Government, we are ready to do that. Advance action in the States to stop the fury of floods or control the floods cannot be taken by the Central Government.

            Then the question of linking of rivers in Bihar was discussed here threadbare and almost all hon. Members from Bihar have spoken on that. I want to inform this august House that Kohra-Chandrawat, Bhuri-Gandak, Nom-Bayaganga, Bagmati, Berugandak, Kosi-Gandak, Ganga-Kosi-Gandak, Kosi-Mechi, Kum-Kamancha and Sola are the links in Bihar which they wanted should be undertaken. They took up the matter with us. But, in between, they said one thing. I asked my agency, the National Water Development Agency, to help Bihar. They went there. They sat with their engineers and then later Bihar Government said that they would like to do it themselves. So, we cannot interfere. They told us: “We shall call you to help us when needed.” So, I am waiting for that opportunity.

            Many hon. Members said that we must pursue matters of mutual advantage with Nepal. That was a very valid intervention by hon. Members. I want to tell them that we are conscious of the mutual advantage that can flow both to Nepal and to this country. It is a great advantage to build high dams, to generate electricity, to save this country from floods that are caused by the rivers flowing from Nepal to this country.

            So, keeping this in view, a number of joint technical Committees are already formed by the two countries to discuss the technical issues that are involved. A Joint Committee on Water Resources headed by the Water Resources Secretaries of India and Nepal oversees the work of these technical Committees. The seven projects on which dialogue has been going on between the two countries are as follows : Pancheshwar Multipurpose project, Saptkosi High Dam project, Sankosi Diversion Scheme, Kamla Multipurpose project, Bagmati Multipurpose project, Karnali Multipurpose project and Nemori storage-cum-hydel project.

            The Mahakali Treaty is already signed between the two countries. It was signed as back as in 1996 for implementation of Pancheshwar project. A joint project office, JPO, has already been set up in Nepal. It was set up in August, 2004 by the UPA Government for field investigations of Saptkosi High Dam project and other projects on the rivers flowing from Nepal to North Bihar, for preparation of detailed project report. As recently as in January, 2007 our officers visited Nepal. I could say that the Secretary-level talks are scheduled any time in October this year.

            Sir, Nepal was in a very bad situation. There was a turmoil inside that country. Now, hopefully, not only our relations have improved but we are dealing with a democratic setup in that country and the hon. Prime Minister of Nepal visited here along with so many Ministers. I was present in some discussions. I found that they are also wanting that we must take up these joint projects. We shall not miss any opportunity to come forward with an agreement with Nepal and now I can say that it is easier today to deal with Nepal than it was earlier.

            Then, some hon. Members said about China. I can make a very brief comment on that. Even on that front we are doing something. China provides flood information from 1st June to 15th October every year since 2002 because of a Memorandum of Understanding which had been signed between the two countries in respect of three stations on the river Siang in China. [MSOffice70] 

            An MoU for provision of similar information of one station in China on River Sutlej was signed on 11.4.05. The Chinese side has started providing this information from the monsoon of 2007. During the visit of the hon. President of People’s Republic of China during 20-23 November, 2006, it was agreed to set up an expert-level mechanism to discuss interaction and co-operation on the provision of flood season hydrological data, emergency management and other issues regarding trans-border rivers as agreed between them. The expert groups have been formed. The first meeting of the Joint Expert Group for Indo-China Co-operation on Water Resources is scheduled to take place during 19-21 September in China. I had to say this much about China.

            As far as Bhutan is concerned, I visited Bhutan last year. Bhutan provides information to us from 35 stations and we are doing quite a lot for them. We have very friendly relations with Bhutan, as you know. We want that country to develop itself to optimum level and we have lent a helping hand in their hydro-electric projects Chukha, Tala etc. When I visited there, His Majesty and his ministerial colleagues expressed gratitude to India for the helping hand India is providing to Bhutan.

            As far as Bangladesh is concerned, I visited Bangladesh also. We had paid visits to Ichamati, Feni and Moori. Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, we were close to an agreement, but the political atmosphere in that country was very fragile around that time, but the present Government of Bangladesh is wanting the discussions to go on. Last month, Bangladeshi team was here and Secretary-level meetings took place. That delegation also called on me and I found that it is possible that a Joint-Rivers Commission will meet very shortly. These are the points that the hon. Members have raised commonly.

            Now, I would very briefly go to the National Common Minimum Programme of this Government. I can say it on the basis of my information and on the basis of facts that this Government is doing quietly many good things, not seeking publicity, but the publicity is incidental to that.  Pursuent to the National Common Minimum Programme, a taskforce was set up by the hon. Prime Minister in August 2004 on flood management. At that time, Bihar and West Bengal had suffered a great loss of lives and property due to floods. So, the focus was that. The focus was the entire country, but particularly for Bihar and West Bengal, some recommendations were made and my Ministry took pains to implement those recommendations. Based on the recommendations, the Task Force at that time recommended 49 schemes of flood management for Bihar and 21 schemes were identified for Tenth Plan under the Centrally-sponsored schemes under which 75 per cent is provided by the Centre and 25 per cent by the States. Out of these 21 schemes, 13 have been taken up in the Tenth Plan and 8 schemes will be taken up in the Eleventh Plan. In the mean-time, Bihar Government said that they would be sending us more schemes, but those schemes have not been sent to us. 

I would like to take this august House into confidence that we went out of our way to help Bihar. We were interested that Baghmati and Mahananda should be taken up by the Central Government for funding.  We sent officers,  and the MOS went there twice. The Secretary and other officers of the Ministry took pains to help Bihar to prepare the project reports and then they sent us these proposals. Now, these proposals for providing embankments to  Baghmati and Mahananda are available with us for appraisal. We are going to take them in the Eleventh Plan.[s71] 

I am sure that Bagmati and Mahananda embankments will be provided and it can generate great hope in Bihar. This is what the Ministry did for Bihar. I am requesting my colleagues here that they should get back to us because ultimately the Members of Parliament are very responsible people, they are the leaders, they can go back to their Government in the light of this debate and they can raise a debate with the Governments so that State Governments come to us for any kind of help they need. Much more than the Bihar Government itself, we are eager to help Bihar because it should not suffer through floods anymore.

            Recently a request came from Bihar. There was a request from the Principal Secretary, Government of Bihar in August itself to the Ministry of Water Resources for sending an expert team of CWC and officers from Ganga Flood Control Management for advising the State Government in flood management measures. Bihar was suffering from unprecedented floods. Prompt action was taken by the Ministry. An expert team comprising Chief Engineers of CWC and Ganga Flood Control Commission have been sent to Bihar to sit with the Bihar Government officers and help them.

            As for West Bengal, I am referring to the Common Minimum Programme and the Task Force that was constituted for responding to the situation. That Task Force had also responded to the situation in West Bengal. Ten schemes pertaining to West Bengal were included in the Tenth Plan. The Central share was Rs. 51 crore, and we provided Rs. 51 crore. The West Bengal Government did not spend the entire amount; only Rs. 41 crore was spent. I do not understand this. They could have asked for more money. But instead of spending the entire money, they spent only Rs. 41 crore.

            Besides these, anti-erosion works along River Ganga and Padma have been entrusted to Farakka Barrage Project in 2005 – forty kilometers upstream, and  80 kilometers downstream in Farakka were taken up. A total of Rs. 90 crore was released in the Tenth Plan. Against the Eleventh Plan, knowing that they need it, we have already released Rs. 33 crore.

            Now, there are two schemes relating to drainage – Keliaghyee-Tapteshwar- Baghai, and the second is Ghatal Master Plan. The Task Force recommended these schemes for Eleventh Plan.

SHRI PRABODH PANDA (MIDNAPORE): What about Subarnarekha Barrage?

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I will come to that. West Bengal Government is in the process of preparing DPR. They may request our Corporation known as WAPCOS to do that. So, WAPCOS is taking up that DPR. In the meantime, for Subarnarekha, in 2001-03,  we had provided Rs. 13.23 crore. That money was not spent by the West Bengal Government, and they had diverted that money to Teesta Barrage. Now, they want to send us a proposal for funding under AIBP. I am waiting for that. We shall certainly consider that, and we shall provide assistance for that. But I am telling you that that money was diverted and that was not spent.

           

Now, a new scheme for improvement of drainage of River Saraswati has been cleared by the Ganga Flood Control Commission at an estimated cost of Rs. 30 crore, but the West Bengal Finance Department has not yet cleared it. The Members of Parliament from West Bengal are here. They can take up this issue with their Government, and the response from the Ministry will be positive.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: +ÉMÉ® +ÉÉ{É cÉÒ ºÉÉ®É ¤ÉÉäãÉ ãÉåMÉä, iÉÉä MÉßc àÉÆjÉÉÒ VÉÉÒ BÉDªÉÉ ¤ÉÉäãÉåMÉä?

 PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I will deal with only the points which are pertaining to my Ministry. The Task Force had recommended so many things for Bihar and West Bengal, but there has to be a response to the whole country. Therefore, we studied the recommendations properly, and the Prime Minister had proposed NEWRA. But NEWRA is not coming up very successfully, I want to report to you. We are trying very hard to convince Arunachal Pradesh and others that NEWRA will create a situation of hope in the North East, but the process is sluggish, not because of us, but because of lack of agreement of States, we are persuading them. It will generate a lot of electricity. It will save Assam and other places from floods and it will have irrigation potential.[r72] 

In fact that region can provide electricity to many parts of the country, and those parts can pay money to the North-East which will generate a situation of hope. The process is sluggish because there has to be a consensus. We cannot issue orders to State Governments: we have to go by consensus. That is the policy that is adopted by us.

            In the meantime, since NEWRA was not coming up in commensurate with the desire of the hon. Prime Minister and the desire of this UPA Government, we are proposing to revamp and restructure the Brahmaputra Board. Very shortly, I will be before the Cabinet. The restructure Brahmaputra Board will be enormously different. It will have four offices – at Guwahati, Itanagar, Aizawl and Shillong. It will necessarily have the component where the Central Government can take up projects itself. So, it is good news for the North-East particularly because Brahmaputra Board will be restructured for the benefit of the region.

            In the meantime, we responded to the situation in Majuli island. Now Majuli is different. People had left that island but they are returning now. During this flood I sent two teams to Majuli and Majuli is receiving tremendous attention now.

            As for the country as a whole, I would refer to Pranabji’s letters. More than the State Government of West Bengal, it was Pranabda who wrote four letters during this flood. I responded to Dasmunsiji also Mr. Arun Kumar, and Mr. Anwar Hussain. To the best of my ability, I responded to their suggestions.

            For the nation as a whole, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, we are proposing a National Flood Management Commission, Mr. Yerrannaidu was proposing here. He just made the speech and has left the House. He said that the Government was not doing anything as a long-term measure.  I wish he was here so that I could tell him what the Government is doing. I hope his colleagues would convey to him what I am going to say now. The Government of India has responded to the situation in the country. There will now be a National Flood Management Commission and it will examine throughout the country the needs in respect of drainage and embankments and whatever is needed.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): It has been there since 1980s.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: There has been an idea. This is now in the process of action. I am going to the Cabinet after some time with this. This proposal has already been circulated for comments. I inform this House that there will be a National Flood Management Commission. We have approached the Planning Commission for funding. Through this Commission, wherever Central Government wants to intervene for construction programme of drainage and embankments, it will be possible to do so. It will help the State Governments in preparation of master plans, preparation of DPRs. Wherever necessary, funding will be made available. We are now setting up four regional centres in the country in various regions so that we reach the entire country. The National Flood Management Commission will generate a situation of hope for the entire country.

            Members said that year after year we give relief. I agree with the hon. Members that instead of giving relief, instead of waiting for the floods, we must stop floods from coming. It is possible to do that. I know the genius of Indians and I believe that we shall succeed in this.

            I would like to say one word about Members from other States like Orissa. I would request them to get back to their State Governments, sit with the Administration there, and send the proposals. This Ministry will consider all proposals very sympathetically and very positively.

           

SHRI DEVENDRA PRASAD YADAV (JHANJHARPUR): Sir, I want to seek a clarification.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Minister of Water Resources was just intervening. After the reply of the Home Minister, you can seek your clarifications.[KMR73] 

 

 

SHRIMATI C.S. SUJATHA (MAVELIKARA): The present flood in India has been described by the United Nations as one of the worst flood, the mankind had seen in the recent past.  This observation of the United Nations has been found absolutely correct in Kerala where we experienced an unprecedented calamity of flood.

            Continuous and Torrential rain and flash flood played havoc. 234 valuable human lives lost. Almost 50,000 houses fully or partially damaged vehicles; large scale destruction of crops of infrastructure took place.  The total estimated loss is of 1500 crores.

            The State has been witnessing such calamites continuously for the last couple of years.  The people had to bear the brunt of the Tsunami.  The rehabilitation work is still underway.  The present Situations added to the woes.  The State is also grappling with the situations of continuous recurrence of contagious diseases like chikkengunia.

            My district Alappuzha is one of the worst hit by the present natural calamity.  Almost 80% of the area remained inundated for 14 days continuously. Kuttanad in the District is Lenora as the rice bowl of kerala.

            Thousands of hectares of paddy fields remained under water destroying the crops completely. Upper Kuttanad and Onattukara were also hit badly.  12 lakhs man days lost.  800 Relief Camps had to be opened in the district alone.  The situation was by and large same in other districts of the state also. The present allocation of central assistance for relief work is insufficient to undertake the relief work in the state.

            There is an urgent need for immediate Amendment of Disaster Management Act to include Land slide and sea erosion in the list of disaster.  I request the central Government to take note of this and do the needful.

            I urge upon the government to sanction sufficient amount to tide over the present tragic situations.                                                                 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

श्री अनिवाश राय खन्ना (होशियारपुर) : महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से सरकार के ध्यान में लाना चाहता हूं कि मेरे हल्के के श्री आनन्दपुरसाहिब में जोरदार बाढ़ का प्रकोप हुआ, जिससे करीब १६-१७ गांव बुरी तरह प्रभावित हुए। वहां लिंक रोड्स और रेलवे को काफी नुकसान हुआ। बिजली पानी बंद हो गया। पंजाब सरकार के मंत्री, खुद मैं और माननीय मुख्यमंत्री जी ने वहां का दौरा किया। मैं अपने हल्के के लोगों का आभारी हूं, जिन्होंने बाढ़ से प्रभावित लोगों को खाने-पीने की कोई मुश्किल नहीं आने दी। गुरूद्वारों से लंगर लाकर सभी को लंगर दिया गया। पंजाब सरकार ने भी काफी उपाय किए, लेकिन ये काफी नहीं हैं। वहां फसल को भी नुकसान हुआ। घरों में पानी घुस गया, जिससे लोगों के मकानों को काफी नुकसान हुआ। काफी प्रवासी मजदूर जिनके पास मजदूरी की कमाई होती है, जो बैंकों में पैसा जमा नहीं करवाते, अपने पास ही रखते हैं, अनाज भी उनकी झोपड़ियों में रहता है, वहां उनका सभी कुछ बह गया। सभी असहाय होकर सरकार की तरफ देख रहे हैं।

महोदय, मैं निवेदन करता हूं कि श्री आनन्दपुरसाहिब देश के गौरव का स्थान है। वहां इतना नुकसान होना सभी देशवासियों को भी आहत करता है। मेरा निवेदन है कि केंद्र से पांच सौ करोड़ रूपए का एक पैकेज वहां के लिए दिया जाए, ताकि लोगों की मदद हो सकें।

 

 

           

 

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

श्री अनिरुद्ध प्रसाद उर्फ साधु यादव (गोपालगंज) : महोदय, गत वर्षों की भांति इस वर्ष भी बाढ़ के प्रकोप से बिहार तहस नहस हो गया है। यूनाइटेड नेशंस का कहना है कि अभी तक की जानकारी के आधार पर इस वर्ष जो बाढ़ का प्रकोप हुआ है, वह सबसे अधिक है।

देश के २० राज्य बाढ़ की लपेट में आए हैं, जिनमें सबसे प्रभावित राज्य बिहार, आंध्रा प्रदेश, असम, उड़ीसा, उत्तर प्रदेश, राजस्थान, महाराष्ट्र एवं गुजरात आदि हैं और सरकारी आकलन है कि कुल आर्थिक हानि १४६० करोड़ रुपए की हुई है। ३३०. ९९ लाख लोग बाढ़ से प्रभावित हैं। पंद्रह सौ लोगों की जानें गई हैं, मवेशियों के बह जाने की खबर है। मवेशियों की संख्या ६९८४२ है और ४.६ लाख घरों के ढहने का अनुमान अकेले बिहार राज्य में है, जहां से मैं आता हूं। १२४ लाख लोग बाढ़ से प्रभावित हैं, ११५ लोगों की जानें गई हैं, १९ जिले प्रभावित हैं, ४५२२२ करोड़ रुपयों की हानि हुई है।

अभी तक सरकार की ओर से जो राहत की राशि आवंटन हेतु घोषित की गई है, वह १२९२ करोड़ की है। यह राशि सरकार की हानि के अनुमान से १४६० करोड़ रुपए कम है। वर्ष २००५-२०१० के लिए प्राकृतिक आपदा राहत कोष में २१३३३ करोड़ रुपए का प्रावधान किया गया है और वर्तमान वर्ष के लिए ४२५९ करोड़ रुपए की व्यवस्था है, किंतु मैं नहीं समझ पा रहा हूं कि धन होने के बावजूद पीड़ितों की सहायता क्यों नहीं की जा रही है।

बिहार राज्य में नेपाल से बहकर आने वाली नदियों में इस वर्ष ३०० लाख क्यूबिक मीटर जल अतरिक्त आया है और बेगूसराय, सीतामढ़ी, मुजफ्फरपुर, गोपालगंज, सहरसा, पूर्वी चम्पारन, दरभंगा, सुपौल, कटिहार, मधुवनी, समस्तीपुर आदि जिले अधिक प्रभावित हुए है। कोसी, बूढ़ी गंडक, गंडक, बागमती, महानंदा, कमलावलान-सेन्टर वाटर कमीशन की रिपोर्ट है कि बिहार प्राय: सभी बड़ी नदियों का पानी खतरे के ऊपर पहुंचा है।

केंद्रीय सरकार ने इन नेपाल की नदियों पर बैराज बनाने की योजना बनाई है जिसकी लागत ७५ हजार करोड़ रुपया आंकी गई है, जिसके तहत कोसी, बागमती, गंड़क नदियों का चयन भी किया है। नदियों को परस्पर मिलाने की योजना भी है। मैं चाहता हूं कि सरकार इन परियोजनाओं के निर्माण में तेजी लाए और आगामी ५ वर्ष की अवधि में इन परियोजनाओं को पूरा करके बिहार राज्य को बाढ़ मुक्त प्रदेश बना दे। इसके साथ मेरा यह भी सुझाव है कि इन छोटी सभी नदियों पर छोटे बांध बनाए जाएं और उनमें ५ से १० मेगावाट बिजली पैदा करने की परियोजनाएं बनें और इन परियोजनओं से उत्पन्न बिजली स्थानीय

* Speech was Laid on the Table.

क्षेत्रों में ही वितरित कर दी जाए। इसका लाभ यह भी होगा कि बिहार राज्य में जहां बिजली की उपलब्धता बढ़ेगी, वहीं इसका मूल्य भी कम होगा।

बाढ़ हर वर्ष आती है, कोई नई आपदा नहीं है। परन्तु इस वर्ष ज्यादा बाढ़ आई है और इसके कारण नुकसान भी राष्ट्रीय स्तर पर तथा बिहार राज्य का हुआ है। इस आपदा से निपटने के लिए दो तरीके से उपाय करना होगा। एक त्वरित उपाय और दूसरा दीर्घकालिक उपाय।

त्वरित उपाय – वर्तमान में उत्पन्न समस्या का निपटारा करें, जैसे आज लोगों के घर उजड़ गए हैं, खाने की व्यवस्था नहीं है, वस्त्र का अभाव है।

दीर्घकालिक उपाय – जिन से हम बाढ़ आने को ही रोक सकें। मेरा सरकार से अनुरोध है कि इसके लिए सरकार उदारतापूर्वक सहायता करे। मेरा विशेष रूप से आग्रह है कि बाढ़ पीड़ितों की सहायता इतनी की जानी चाहिए कि वे न केवल अपनी मौजूदा आवश्कयताओं को पूरा कर सकें, बल्कि अपने उद्योग धंधों को भी सुचारू रूप से चला सकें। यदि इस पक्ष पर सरकार ने ध्यान नहीं दिया तो निश्चित समझ लें कि बाढ़ पीड़ित सदैव-सदैव के लिए असहाय एवं बेचारा हो कर रह जाएगा। दीर्घकालिक उपाय में जरूरी है कि नदियों को आपस में जोड़ा जाए, जिससे उनका अतरिक्त जल का समान बंटवारा हो जाए। इन नदियों पर छोटे-छोटे बांध बनाए जाएं, उन पर छोटी-छोटी बिजली परियोजनाएं बनाई जाएं, इससे यह लाभ होगा कि परियोजना जल्दी बनेगी, उनका लाभ आम लोगों को जल्दी मिलेगा और पूंजी भी कम लगेगी।

मेरा इस संबंध में सुझाव है कि इन परियोजनओं से जो बिजली पैदा हो, उसे स्थानीय स्तर पर ही वितरण की व्यवस्था की जाए, इससे यह लाभ होगा कि बिजली की हानि कम होगी, उसका मूल्य भी कम होगा।

अंत में मेरा सुझाव है कि केंद्र द्वारा चलाई गई योजनाओं के लिए जो धन दिया जाता हे, वह राज्य सरकारों की अनियमितताओं का शिकार हो जाती है। मुझे प्रसन्नता है कि पंचायत राज मंत्री श्री अय्यर जी ने इस ओर देश का ध्यान आकर्षित किया है। मैं भी चाहता हूं कि बाढ़ राहत राशि राज्य में पंचायत स्तर पर बांटी जाए, इससे तुरंत लोगों को राहत मिलेगी तथा अनियमितताएं भी नियंत्रित हो सकेंगी।

श्री विजय कृष्ण (बाढ़) : |ÉiªÉäBÉE ºÉÉãÉ ÉʤÉcÉ® ¤ÉÉfà ºÉä bÚ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ciÉÉ cè* iÉiBÉEÉÉÊãÉBÉE |ɪÉÉºÉ cÉäiÉä ®ciÉä cè, <ºÉ ºÉÉãÉ ÉʤÉcÉ® ºÉ®BÉEÉ® ºÉcɪÉiÉÉBÉEɪÉÇ £ÉÉÒ ~ÉÒBÉE ºÉä xÉcÉÓ BÉE® ®cÉÒ cè* VÉxÉiÉÉ ¤ÉÉfà ºÉä OɺiÉ cè*

उत्तरबिहार को बाढ़ से बचाने के लिए नेपाल भारत खासकर उत्तर प्रदेश बिहार को लेकर विचार विमर्श के बाद उपाय किये जाने चाहिए। सरकार प्रयास भी कर रही है। इसमें तेजी आनी चाहिए। दियाससेय के लिए विकास बोर्ड तथा ताल क्षेत्र के समयक विकास के लिए योजना तथा तत्काल आवश्यक शशि सरकार को मुहैया कराना चाहिए। पटना, नालन्दा, में जल जमाव की समस्या है। बाढ़, मोकामा, खगड़िया,फतुहा, ताल क्षेत्र जो बारहा सौ (१२००) वर्ग किलो मीटर में फैला है जिसको जल जमाव से मुक्ति के कारगर उपाय किये जाये।

 

 

 

 

 

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

श्री वी.के. ठुम्मर (अमरेली) : àÉcÉänªÉ,  àÉé ¤ÉÉfà ºÉä =i{ÉxxÉ ÉκlÉÉÊiÉ BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå BÉEcxÉÉ SÉÉcÚÆMÉÉ ÉÊBÉE ªÉc {ÉÚ®ä nä¶É BÉEÉÒ ºÉàɺªÉÃÉ cè ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ MÉÖVÉ®ÉiÉ ®ÉVªÉ àÉå VÉÉä ¤ÉÉfà BÉEÉÒ ÉκlÉÉÊiÉ =i{ÉxxÉ cÖ<Ç cè, =ºÉBÉEä ÉÊãɪÉä ®ÉVªÉà ºÉ®BÉEÉ® nÉä­ÉÉÒ cè* ºÉ®BÉEÉ® {ÉÚ®ÉÒ iÉ®c ºÉä ÉÊ´É{ÉEãÉ ®cÉÒ cè* ´ÉèºÉä MÉÖVÉ®ÉiÉ nä¶É BÉEÉ xÉà¤É® ´ÉxÉ ®ÉVªÉ BÉEcãÉÉiÉÉ cè ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ ´ÉcÉÆ ÉÊbVÉɺ]® àÉèxÉäVÉàÉå] ¤ÉÖ®ÉÒ iÉ®c ºÉä ÉÊ´É{ÉEãÉ ®cÉ cè* 2006 àÉå ºÉÚ®iÉ àÉå ¤ÉÉfà +ÉÉ<Ç iÉÉä ={ÉEÉ<Ç bèàÉ BÉEä ´ÉVÉc ºÉä ºÉÚ®iÉ àÉå VÉÉxÉ-àÉÉãÉ BÉEÉÒ ¤ÉcÖiÉ cÉÉÊxÉ cÖ<Ç lÉÉÒ +ÉÉè® BÉE®Éä½Éå âó{ɪÉä BÉEÉ xÉÖBÉEºÉÉxÉ cÉä MɪÉÉ lÉÉ* =ºÉ ºÉàÉªÉ £ÉÉÒ ®ÉVªÉ ºÉ®BÉEÉ® BÉEÉ nÉä­É lÉÉ * ºÉ®BÉEÉ® BÉEÉä =ÉÊSÉiÉ BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ BÉE®xÉÉÒ SÉÉÉÊcªÉä lÉÉÒ ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ xÉcÉÓ BÉEÉÒ* BÉEäxp ºÉ®BÉEÉ® xÉä ¤ÉÉfà ®ÉciÉ BÉEä ÉÊãɪÉä 500 BÉE®Éä½ âó{ɪÉÉ ÉÊnªÉÉ ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ ´Éc {ÉÚ®É JÉSÉÇ xÉcÉÓ ÉÊBÉEªÉÉ MɪÉÉ *

इस साल गुजरात में बाढ़ आई है और मैं अमरेली लोक सभा क्षेत्र से सांसद हूं जहां बाबरा, अमरेली, ललिया,कांडीनाल, उटवर्ड मचियाला, चापाथल. शहाड़ा, नाना ललिया, गोखरवाला, शेडुमार, गोहिल-नी-खान में किसानों की जमीन जो उपजाऊ थी, वह ऊपजाऊहीन हो गई है। इस वजह से किसानों को आत्महत्यायें करनी पड़ रही है। केन्द्र सरकार ने किसानों के लिये राज्य सरकार को ४८ करोड़ रुपये दिये जो उन तक नहीं पहुंचे। नदियों को जोड़ने के लिये सरकार ने जिस कमेटी का गठन किया, वह केवल कागज़ों पर रह गई है। गोहिल-नी-खान में किसानों के ५०० पशु मारे गये हैं। अम्बुजा सीमेंट के जीसीबी की वजह से पूरासंरक्षण पाला तोड़ दिय् है लेकिन राज्य सरकार सीमेंट कम्पनी अम्बुजा की तरफदारी कर रही है। सीमेंट कम्पनी जमीन की खुदाई कर रही है, उससे हुये नुकसान का मुआवजा दिया जाये और कम्पनी का लाइसैंस रद्द करवा दिया जाये क्योंकि इससे किसानों को बहुत बड़ा नुकसान हुआ है।

किसानों की ऊपजाऊ जमीन नष्ट हो गई है, केन्द्र ब्याजमुक्त ऋण दे और जो उनके पशु मर गये हैं, किसानों को मुआवजा दिया जाये।

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

श्री भानु प्रताप सिंह वर्मा (जालौन) : महोदय, जब भी बाढ़ आती है, वह किसी जाति, धर्म, सम्प्रदाय को नहीं देखती है, बल्कि बाढ़ सभी को बहा कर ले जाती हे। मेरे अपने लोक सभा क्षेत्र में जब बाढ़ आई, तब देखा गया है कि अति उत्साही नौजवान किसी को बाढ़ से बचाने के लिए जाते हैं, लेकिन स्वयं अपनी जान दे देते हैं। मेरा केन्द्र सरकार को सुझाव हे कि बाढ़ राहत कोष से प्रदेश को जो धन दिया जाता है, उससे बाढ़ के आने से पूर्व ही पानी में तैरने वाली जैकटें खरीदी जाएं तथा नाव पहले से खरीद कर जिला स्तर पर उपलब्ध करा दी जाएं, जिससे बाढ़ आने पर इन सभी सामग्रियों का उपयोग किया जा सके।

महोदय, बाढ़ से गरीब का कच्चा मकान गिर जाता है। कपड़े, बर्तन न होने पर २००० रूपये दिए जाएंगे। कच्चा मकान आंशिक रूप से गिरने पर मात्र १५०० रूपये मिलेंगे। यदि पूरी तरह से कच्चा मकान गिर जाता है तो १०००० रूपये सहायता के रूप में दिया जाएगा। मेरा मंत्री जी को सुझाव है कि जो १०००० रूपये दिए जाएंगे, उससे तो गरीब कच्चा मकान भी नहीं बना सकता है। यदि हम सही मायने में गरीब व्यक्ति की सहायता करना चाहते हैं जो कि झोंपड़ी में, कच्चे मकान में रहता है, तो इस धनराशि को कम से कम २०००० रूपये करना चाहिए, जिससे वह कच्चा मकान बनाकर कुछ कपड़े खरीद ले क्योंकि जब बाढ़ आती है तो वह गरीब व्यक्ति का सब कुछ बहा कर ले जाती है। बड़े आदमियों के पैसे तो बैंक में जमा रहते हैं, जबकि गरीब अपनी पूंजी को घर में रखता है। देखने में आया है कि गरीब व्यक्ति अपने परिवार से अलग रहता है, लेकिन बाढ़ आने पर मात्र परिवार के एक व्यक्ति को सहायता दी जाती है, जबकि गरीब परिवार अलग-अलग रहते हैं। इन परिस्थितियों में सभी की अलग-अलग मदद की जानी चाहिए।

 

 

 

 

 

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

श्री सुरेश वाघमारे (वर्धा) : àÉcÉänªÉ, àÉé +ÉÉ{ÉBÉEÉ +ÉÉ£ÉÉ®ÉÒ cÚÆ ÉÊBÉE +ÉÉ{ÉxÉä àÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉäãÉxÉä BÉEÉ ºÉàÉªÉ ÉÊnªÉÉ* ¤ÉÉfà ºÉä c® ºÉÉãÉ nä¶É àÉå ¤É½ä {ÉèàÉÉxÉä {É® FÉÉÊiÉ cÉäiÉÉÒ cè +ÉÉè® BÉE<Ç PÉ® =Vɽ VÉÉxÉä ºÉä ÉÊBÉEºÉÉxÉ +ÉÉè® JÉäiÉÉå BÉEÉä xÉÖBÉEºÉÉxÉ cÉäiÉÉ cè* c® ´É­ÉÇ cÉäxÉä ´ÉÉãÉÉÒ ¤ÉÉBÉEÉÒ FÉÉÊiÉ BÉEÉä näJÉiÉä cÖA nä¶É BÉEÉÒ ºÉ£ÉÉÒ xÉÉÊnªÉÉå BÉEÉä VÉÉä½xÉä ºÉä ¤ÉÉfà ÉÊxɪÉÆjÉhÉ BÉE®xÉÉ SÉÉÉÊcA ÉÊVɺɺÉä ºÉÚJÉÉOɺiÉ FÉäjÉÉå àÉå {ÉÉxÉÉÒ ={ÉãɤvÉ BÉE®É ºÉBÉEåMÉä +ÉÉè® <ºÉBÉEä uÉ®É ÉÊBÉEºÉÉxÉ BÉEÉä JÉäiÉÉÒ àÉå É˺ÉSÉxÉ BªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ ={ÉãɤvÉ cÉäMÉÉÒ* +ÉÉVÉ nä¶É àÉå ºÉ½BÉE, {ÉÉxÉÉÒ, ÉʤÉVÉãÉÉÒ BÉEÉÒ ºÉ¤ÉºÉä VªÉÉnÉ ºÉàɺªÉÉ cè* +ÉÉVÉ ºÉ½BÉEÉå BÉEÉ BÉEÉàÉ ¶ÉÖ°ô cè* ªÉÉÊn ºÉ®BÉEÉ® xÉä ºÉcÉÒ fÆMÉ ºÉä BÉEÉàÉ ÉÊBÉEªÉÉ iÉÉä 2009 iÉBÉE {ÉÚ®ä nä¶É àÉå c® MÉÉÆ´É BÉEÉä ºÉ½BÉE ºÉä VÉÉä½É VÉÉAMÉÉ* =ºÉÉÒ |ÉBÉEÉ® ¤ÉÉfà {ÉÉÒÉʽiÉ FÉäjÉ +ÉÉè® ºÉÚJÉÉ FÉäjÉ BÉEÉ ÉÊ´ÉSÉÉ® VÉÉA +ÉÉè® c® ´É­ÉÇ cÉäxÉä ´ÉÉãÉä JÉSÉÇ BÉEÉÒ àÉnn ®ÉÉ榃 BÉEÉä näJÉå iÉÉä ¤ÉÉfà BÉEÉÒ ®ÉäBÉElÉÉàÉ {É® cÉäxÉä ´ÉÉãÉÉÒ JÉSÉÇ BÉEÉÒ ®ÉÉ榃 BÉEÉä ¤ÉSÉÉBÉE® ªÉÉäVÉxÉÉ+ÉÉäÆ àÉå JÉSÉÇ BÉE®xÉä ºÉä ºÉÆ{ÉÚhÉÇ nä¶É BÉEÉÒ +ÉÉÉÌlÉBÉE =xxÉÉÊiÉ cÉäMÉÉÒ, ®ÉäVÉMÉÉ® BÉEä +ɴɺɮ ={ÉãɤvÉ cÉåMÉä* ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ ªÉä ºÉ¤É xÉÉÊnªÉÉå BÉEÉä VÉÉä½xÉä BÉEä +ÉÉʣɪÉÉxÉ BÉEä uÉ®É cÉÒ |ÉÉ{iÉ cÉåMÉä* +ÉÉVÉ nä¶É àÉå É˺ÉSÉxÉ FÉäjÉ BÉEä ÉÊãÉA +ÉxÉäBÉE ªÉÉäVÉxÉÉAÆ ¤ÉxÉÉ<Ç VÉÉ ®cÉÒ cé* ÉËBÉEiÉÖ BÉÖEãÉ ÉÊàÉãÉÉBÉE® ÉκlÉÉÊiÉ ºÉcÉÒ xÉcÉÓ cÉäxÉä BÉEä BÉE<Ç BÉEÉ®hÉ AäºÉä cé ÉÊVÉºÉ BÉEÉ®hÉ É˺ÉSÉxÉ FÉäjÉ àÉå càÉ {ÉÉÒUä cé, ÉʤÉVÉãÉÉÒ =i{ÉÉnxÉ àÉå {ÉÉÒUä cé* àÉé +ÉɶÉÉ BÉE®iÉÉ cÚÆ ÉÊBÉE ¤ÉÉfà ÉÊxɪÉÆjÉhÉ BÉEä ÉÊãÉA ¤ÉxÉÉ<Ç VÉÉxÉä ´ÉÉãÉÉÒ ªÉÉäVÉxÉÉ BÉEä ºÉÉlÉ cÉÒ ¤ÉÉfà BÉEÉä ®ÉäBÉEiÉä cÖA xÉÉÊnªÉÉÆ VÉÉä½xÉä BÉEÉ +ÉÉʣɪÉÉxÉ £ÉÉÒ <ºÉBÉEä ºÉÉlÉ BÉE®åMÉä, <ºÉºÉä càÉÉ®É BÉEnàÉ JÉÖ¶ÉcÉãÉÉÒ BÉEÉÒ +ÉÉä® VÉÉAMÉÉ*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

DR. K.S. MANOJ (ALLEPPEY): Honourable Dy Speaker Sir, Thank you very much for allowing me to participate in discussion on the situation arising out of flood situation in the country.

            Sir, I come from Alappazha, a district in the state of kerala.  Our district was recently affected by the torrential rain and also the sea erosion due to tidal waves of monsoon.

            Sir, Due to flood, thousands of hectares of Agriculture land was damaged.  Several houses were damaged and due to soil erosion, the entire coast of kerala was affected and families were rehabilitated to rehabilitation centres.

            It is highly objectionable that Sea erosion is not included under CRF/ NCCF guidelines.  I request the honourable Minister that steps should be taken to include Sea erosion and Landslide under CRF and NCCF guidelines.  In kuttanad, paddy fields act as a reservoir to contain the flood water but due to agrarian crises, people leave away from agriculture.  This will, inturn, aggravate the flood situation.  So it is mandatory to take steps to ensure agriculture which will minimize the damages due to flood.  Dr. M.S. Swaminathan Committee has put forth so many recommendations for the eco-preservations of Kuttanad.  I would request the government to implement these recommendations.

            I also request the honourable minister that the compensation amount fixed may be reviewed and new states should be formulated constructing the present cost living.

 

 

 

* The speech was laid on the Table.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Home Minister is going to reply now. After he completes, you can ask clarifications and the Minister can reply.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Sir, discussions have been very good.  I would like to compliment all the hon. Members who participated in the debate for having made very good suggestions.  This year,  the flood situation was very grim and serious.  I had the opportunity of flying over the areas which were inundated with the Chairman of the UPA, the Railway Minister, with Shri Paswan and other Ministers and the Chief Ministers of Bihar and Assam.  For hours together, we were flying over those areas.  We could see only water and water, nothing but water.  It was looking like an ocean.  So, the situation was definitely very grave and very serious.  It was necessary and it is necessary for us to help the people who have been affected by the floods.  What is the kind of relief that has been given?  It would not be possible for me to give the details of the relief given to the people in different States in the available time today.  That is why, we have prepared a booklet on the flood situation in the country and it has been circulated to all the hon. Members.  This booklet gives the information about the situation in different States in our country, about the funding which has been done; about the steps which have been taken to give the relief; and about the steps which can be taken to give more relief to the people who  are suffering.  That is why it will not be necessary for me to deal with each of the States differently and separately and give the information.  This booklet itself would give the information very briefly.  This booklet has given the information about all the States.  This will be very useful. The only request as I did yesterday to the hon. Members here, please glance through these pages and it would give you the information.  It would give you an idea as to what is being done because the charge leveled is that every year we discuss the flood situation in the House, and then the next year also we have to discuss the flood situation.  That is not so.  You would come to know as to what has been done and what can be done in this respect.  That is why, my request to you is that these are only a few pages.  This is a booklet of 48 pages.  It will not take even 20 minutes to read this booklet.  I would request you to read this booklet. 

            One thing which has come out very clearly in this debate is that it is necessary for us to take long-term measures to deal with the flood situation in the country.  We have been taking short-term  measures.  We have been taking compensation, food grains, cloths, utensils, medicines, shelters to the people who are suffering but that is not enough.  Long-term measures should be taken. That is the point which was made by almost all the Members, who spoke in this debate and very good suggestions have been given by them. [r74]  What are those suggestions?  The suggestions given by them are: build dams wherever possible, construct embankments, link the rivers flowing through different States, de-silt dams, de-silt rivers, plant trees, recharge the underground sub-terrarian storage, move the houses to higher levels, store the food grains and the medicines in the areas which are likely to be affected by flood and other calamities, have the policies and plans made in order to see that measures are taken to counter these kind of calamities, speak to the neighbouring countries and solve the dispute between the States, use the modern technologies, have better forecast of the climatic  conditions, change the forces, have the standing forces which can be used and protect the environment.

            These are some of the very important suggestions made by the hon. Members.   My colleague, the Minister of Water Resources has at length dealt with many of these points made by the hon. Members.  He has spoken at length as to what is being done by the Government of India and the Irrigation Ministry in constructing the dams and things like that.   He has also spoken about the kind of dialogue India is having with the neighbouring nations that is, Nepal, Bhutan and other States also put together.  These are the things which are really very important.  These are the things on which we shall have to really depend upon in order to see that the floods do not affect the people in the future.  I am sure, after a comprehensive speech made by my colleague, it is not necessary for me to go into all these details in order to explain as to what is being done in order to control flood in flood-affected areas.

            I can now come to the point which relates to CRF, NCCF and the plan assistance which can be given.  There appears to be a misunderstanding in the minds of many of the hon. Members as to what kind of assistance can be given under CRF or NCCF.   I would like to inform the hon. House that the Government of India sets aside Rs.21,000 crore for providing Calamity Relief Fund to the States in five years time.  It means nearly Rs.4000 crore is available to the Home Ministry to give the Calamity Relief Fund every year.  What is the Calamity Relief Fund?  It is an immediate relief.  Supposing, the flooding is there or the earthquake has taken place or the cyclone has affected the country, then immediate relief has to be given.  What is the immediate relief that has to be given?  The food grains have to be provided.  Medicines and things like that have to be given.   That is immediate relief.  You cannot wait even for a day.  You shall have to immediately reach the people and give the relief.  This amount of money is available for giving immediate relief.  This amount of money is not retained by the Government of India with itself.  In two instalments this fund is given to the State Governments.  The Government of India has decided which State can receive what amount of money and that money is given to each of the States in first and second instalments.  In whatever fashion they want to use this money, they can use it.  It is not necessary for them to come to the Government of India asking for any kind of sanction or permission to use that money.  This should be in clear terms understood by the hon. Members.  [R75] 

But they shall have to understand that this is a relief.  This is not a compensation.  This is not rebuilding or rehabilitating the people.  This is simply to give the relief at the initial stages.  This has to be understood in clear terms.   When this booklet gives information as to what kind of money has been given to each of the State, some States have said that this amount is a pittance and that it is nothing.  It cannot help.  But that money is not for constructing the houses, the roads, the bridges, and the dams.  This amount of money is for giving relief.  This is to be understood in clear terms.

            When initially this Fund was made available to the Government of India and to the State Governments, in the House and outside the House also, the discussions took place and it was decided that this amount of money is not sufficient and more money should be given.  That is why, the National Contingency Calamity Fund was brought into existence.  Now if some more money is required, it can be given.  What is the procedure to be followed for giving this money?  The procedure followed is this.  Supposing Bihar has been affected by floods.  The Government of Bihar will find out as to how many houses have been damaged; what length of roads has been damaged; what power station has been damaged; how many schools have been damaged; how many hospitals have been damaged; and then they can take the information from each of the village, each of the taluka, each of the district and that information is sent by the State Government to the Government of India and Government of India constitutes a Committee of the Officers of the Ministries of Agriculture, Finance, Home Affairs and other relevant Ministries.  Those officers go for a look at the things over there.  They come back and they then inform the high level Committee consisting of the Minister of Agriculture, the Home Minister, the Finance Minister, the Minister of Planning and the Chairman of NDC as to what amount of money has to be given to them.  If they come to the conclusion that more food is to be given and more funds have to be given, that amount of money is made available to them.  When the Finance Minister is sitting in the Committee, he says that this money will be made available.  The Minister of Agriculture is also sitting there and he can say that the food grains are available and that will be given.   The Minister of Health can say that this kind of medical help can be extended.  This is the second step which has to be followed in helping the people.

            Then comes rehabilitation and reconstruction which is a very huge thing to do.  When Tsunami occurred, we went through these three phases.  The first step was giving relief; the second step was giving some more relief which can help them to cope up with the difficulties arising between the period of construction and the rehabilitation and the calamity which had occurred.

            The third stage is that each Government is expected to find out what is the kind of money that Government would require for reconstructing the houses, for reconstructing the roads, for reconstructing the water supply system, for reconstructing the power generating stations, etc.  That amount goes into thousands of crores of rupees.  For Tsunami, we paid nearly Rs.10,000 crore to the States.  That kind of money is not given by the Home Ministry or the Ministry of Agriculture or the Ministry of Planning or the Ministry of Finance.  But when they prepare the plan for reconstruction or the houses, the roads and many other things, that plan is sent to the Government of India and that plan is examined by the Ministry of Planning.  At present because we have created the National Disaster Management Authority, that also examines it and thousands of crores of rupees are given.  But we cannot give thousands of crores of rupees on receipt of a letter from the Chief Minister or from some other person saying that we need Rs.1000 crore so please give us this money.  We are accountable to this House.  The C&AG is there to look into all these things.  If they give a plan and if that plan is examined and approved by the Ministry of Planning, the matter goes to the Cabinet and the money is given.[R76] 

            Now, we shall have to understand this mechanism which we have created for helping the people affected by disaster – floods or scarcity or cyclone or earthquake or any other kind of calamity which can occur. This has to be understood in clear terms. Unfortunately my colleagues in Parliament have not paid their attention to this kind of a procedure which has to be followed and that is why difficulties arise. I am sorry that there are only a very few Members who had spoken on this issue and who are not present in the House today. If I had explained these things and if they had heard what I am saying today, then probably there would not have been again an occasion for them to raise the same point in the next debate. It is because they have not paid attention to the procedure which has to be followed, there is some misunderstanding. If that misunderstanding is cleared, then there shall be no difficulty in seeing that we extend help in disaster management.

            Sir, we have been speaking about so many things. Now one of the most important things which has happened in the last three years time, it has to be understood in clear terms, is that we have passed the Disaster Management Act. The Parliament has passed the Disaster Management Act. This Act deals with floods; deals with cyclone; deals with earthquake; deals with many other kinds of calamities. This Disaster Management Act says that there shall be a National Disaster Management Authority at the national level. The former Chief of the Army has been appointed as the Chairman of the National Disaster Management Authority. This National Disaster Management Authority is expected to make policies and plans and frame the rules and prepare schemes for dealing with floods, for dealing with cyclones, for dealing with earthquakes and things like that. If States like Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, West Bengal and Bihar are affected by floods, then they have prepared the maps to show which areas are likely to be affected by flood every year; which areas are earthquake prone areas and which areas are cyclone prone areas. They have prepared the plans and maps and they have suggested the steps to be taken with respect to that. They have been given the authority.

            Sir, my colleague is sitting here. If he is constructing a dam, say, on Brahmaputra in Arunachal Pradesh, it will be expected of the Ministry of Irrigation that that dam should be so strong as to take any quantity of water which may flow into the river and will not cause flood in West Bengal and other areas and cause deflection. This National Disaster Management Authority is given the authority to suggest to the Irrigation Ministry that the plans prepared for constructing the dams should be such as to be able to withstand the flood that is likely to occur. It is a kind of co-ordination. They are not a superior body to the Irrigation Ministry. They are a body which could be consulted. The National Disaster Manager Authority has been given the powers to speak to the Planning Ministry and the Finance Ministry and say that the Irrigation Ministry should get money for this purpose. This is what they are doing. They have been brought into existence. They are working. Probably, they shall have to work with greater speed. The Members are very enthusiastic, but we have to establish the administrative machinery and it is taking some time. We have to get the sanction and we have to appoint the officers. We have to do it.

            Sir, we are not stopping here. This has to be clearly understood. The National Disaster Management Act provides for establishment of a State Disaster Management Authority and that Authority is under the Chairmanship of, I think, the Chief Minister of the State. They shall have to prepare the plans for their own States, plans to see that floods are not there; earthquake affected people are supported; cyclone affected people are supported and things like that. [R77]  I am sorry to say that some States have not yet constituted the State Disaster Management Authority.  Some States have constituted it and some States have not done it. This Act does not stop us over there.  It provides that at the district level also, there should be a District Disaster Management Authority under the chairmanship of the District Collector and others.  This has also not been done by most of the States. And then, at the fourth level, there is a Local Disaster Management Authority.  For a mega city or for a town or for a village, there shall be a Local Disaster Management Authority.  This law provides that there shall be a fund at the national level; there shall be a fund at the State level and there shall be a fund given to the District Level Authority in order to cope up with these things.

            Fortunately, the Parliament has been able to pass this law and authorise the State Governments and the district bodies to create these Authorities but unfortunately, this is not being done.  May I request the hon. Members of this House to see that, in their districts and States, these authorities are created?  They will have the funds, many other equipments and wherewithal required for this purpose and they will be able to do it.

            It is also suggested that there should be a Force created for this purpose.  Whenever a disaster occurs, our Defence Forces bravely come out and they are psychologically prepared to face any danger to their own lives.  They go and help the people.  Under this Act, it is provided that there shall be a Force specially created for helping the people affected by disasters.  

Eight battalions of paramilitary forces are set aside for this purpose.  That means 8000 people are specially trained for this purpose and they are flown from place to place where they are required.  In Bihar and Assam, the paramilitary forces did help the people there.  What they did in Bihar, Assam, Maharashtra and other places last year is commendable.  They risk their lives; they throw themselves into the rivers and save people. The task done by them should be made known and we should make use of it. 

Whose responsibility is it for helping the country?  You may allow me to say that, under our Constitution, we have the Union Government and the State Governments.  Now, under our Constitution, the district bodies and the panchayati raj institutions are also recognised.  We all know that there is a Union List and the State List.  All the subjects which are mentioned in the Union List are exclusively within the jurisdiction of the Union Government.  All the subjects which are mentioned in the State List are exclusively within the jurisdiction of the States.  In the Concurrent List, there are subjects on which the Union Government and the State Governments can take action. 

Here, there is a little bit of confusion.  My colleague was very right when he said that the Government of India does not construct dams.  The Government of India gives permission to construct mega dams or major dams. Medium dams and the minor dams do not come to the Government of India for permission.  Only the big dams; come to the Government of India.   There is a Committee appointed under the CWC for this purpose. It examines whether water is available, whether the plan prepared is correct or not and then permission is given.  But construction of the dam is done by the State Government and not by the Union Government.  This point is not understood. If the dam is not constructed, we cannot ask my colleagues there as to why they have not constructed the dam. It is for the State Government to prepare the plan, send it to the Union Government for it to examine it and when the approval is given by  the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Planning, the dam has to be constructed by the State Government.

The same is the case with the law and order situation also.  For anything happening in the State, are the Union Government and the Union Home Ministry responsible?  It is not so, Sir.  I cannot send even one policeman to any State without their p[MSOffice78] ermission.  And when I have sent him there, I cannot deploy him; I cannot say that go to this place or that place. That has to be done because that is exclusively with the State Government.  Unless we understand this kind of division of work, it will be very difficult to bring about the cooperation and coordination in the activities which have to be done for these purposes between ourselves. This is not understood, and every time the Members of Parliament would say that the Government of India is responsible and the MLAs of the State Government would say that the State Government is responsible.  There is some kind of confusion which has to be avoided.  But, at the same time, I would like to say that a very good suggestion was given by some hon. Members. Now they said that the Bihar Government would like to link the rivers.  By all means, do it. There shall be no difficulty in allowing them to do it and if they prepare the plan, the Ministry of Irrigation will definitely look into it and if they want to link the rivers in their States without affecting other States, the permission can be given. Supposing, the rivers between two States have to be linked and the rivers between Bihar, Orissa and Andhra Pradesh have to be linked, now, that would be the responsibility of the Government of India because it is Inter-State matter and it is not a matter for the State Government.  This has to be understood in clear terms.  Supposing, we have to talk to the Nepal Government or Bhutan Government or Governments of China or Pakistan for that matter, it is the Government of India which will be speaking and not the Minister of Irrigation, not the Minister of Home Affairs. The Minister of External Affairs and the Minister of Irrigation together will be talking to them.  Now, this responsibility has to be borne by the Union Government.  That means the point I am making is, Sir, that the Union Government cannot shirk the responsibility of helping the people. The Union Government has a responsibility, but in what area responsibility lies has to be understood in clear terms. If it is not understood in clear terms under our Constitution, we would misunderstand things and we will unnecessarily quarrel with each other by saying that you have not done this, I have not done this and I have done this and you have done that thing. Now, that kind of thing has to be understood. It is more important in the Parliament to understand this division which is provided, not by us but by the framers of the Constitution, not by any law, but it is in the Constitution itself and if we understand this mechanism which is available for us to help ourselves, it will be easier for us to do it.  

            But one thing which I would like to make clear at the end, Sir, is that we shall work with the State Governments in a cooperative manner. We shall overcome these difficulties. Fortunately for us, India is strong enough to cope up with these kinds of difficulties. What is required is a clear understanding and, fortunately, we have that kind of a clear understanding.   With every State, the Government of India is talking and every State is talking to the Government of India. We have absolutely no difficulty. If they have committed mistakes, we have told them and if we have committed mistakes, they have brought it to our notice and it has been possible for us to correct them.    This kind of cooperative effort is required; cooperation between the Union, the States and the people is required.  I am sure that the cooperation between the Parliament and the State Legislature, the Union Government and the State Government and the people will help us and we will be able to overcome these differences and difficulties.  So after a comprehensive speech made by my colleague and after a brief statement made by me, I do not think it is necessary for me to say anything more than this.           

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव (झंझारपुर) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, आपने मुझे क्लैरीफिकेशन के लिए समय दिया, इसव्ाे लिए मैं आपको धन्यवाद देता हूँ।

महोदय, मैंने पूरी संजीदगी से माननीय गृहमंत्री जी और माननीय जल संसाधन मंत्री जी को सुना है। जो तकनीकी बात है, संवैधानिक प्रावधान है या डिजास्टर मैनेजमेंट एक्ट के तहत प्रावधान है, उसके तहत डिजास्टर मैनेजमेंट अथारिटी बनाने की बात आपने आप स्टेट गवर्नमेंट से जुड़ी हुई है। इसके लिए वे प्लानिंग करेंगे, योजना बनाएंगे और उसके बारे में आपसे कंसल्ट करेंगे। [R79]  [a80] 

लेकिन हम बड़े बांधों की बात करना चाहते हैं, जिसमें नेपाल और भारत दोनों इन्वॉल्व हैं। हाई लेवल डैम बनाने के लिए भारत सरकार और नेपाल सरकार में वर्ष २००१ में बात हुई थी। उस वार्ता में यह तय हुआ था कि नेपाल में सात जगहों पर जाइंट प्रोजेक्ट कार्यालय खोले जाएंगे और दोनों देशों के इंजीनियर्स के सहयोग से डीपीआर तैयार की जाएगी। इसके लिए दसवीं पंचवर्षीय योजना में करीब ३० करोड़ रुपए और फिर करीब ३४ करोड़ रुपए, दोनों मिलाकर कुल ६४ करोड़ रुपए आबंटित किए गए हैं, जिसमें सर्वे कराया जाएगा, डीपीआर तैयार की जाएगी और कर्मियों की तनख्वाह दिए जाना भी शामिल है।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप केवल प्रश्न करें।

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : राहत के बारे में गृह मंत्री जी ने जो सीआरएफ और एनसीसीएफ के तहत आबंटित राशि के बारे में बताया, उससे तो हम सहमत हैं कि राष्ट्रीय आपदा कोष में २१,००० करोड़ रुपए और दूसरे कोष में २५,००० करोड़ रुपए का प्रावधान किया गया है। मैं समझता हूं कि जब बाढ़ आती है तो सरकार को बाढ़ से प्रभावित लोगों को राहत पहुंचाने के लिए तुरंत नकद भुगतान करना पड़ता है, क्योंकि बाढ़ में सांप के काटने से और पानी में डूब जाने से अत्यधिक जानें जाती हैं। विभाग की ओर से हमें जो प्राकृतिक आपदा के विषय में पुस्तिका दी गई है, यह एक अच्छा प्रयास है। हम इसकी ताईद करते हैं। यह तो हुई राहत देने की बात, लेकिन यह कोई स्थाई रेमेडी नहीं है। यह तात्कालिक जीवन रक्षा के लिए दवाएं और खाद्यान्न आदि उपलब्ध कराने की बात है। इससे लोग पुरुषार्थविहीन भी बनते हैं।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप क्या चाहते हैं, यह पूछें?

श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : बाढ़ से रोकथाम के लिए दीर्घकालीन उपायों को प्राथमिकता देनी चाहिए। उसके लिए मल्टी पर्पज हाई लेवल डैम बनाए जाएं। इस कार्य के लिए दोनों देशों की सहमति से नेपाल में सात जगहों पर जो जेपीओ खोले गए हैं, उनमें डीपीआर समयबद्ध कार्यक्रम तय करके बनाई जाए। अगर हाई लेवल डैम बनेंगे तो इससे बिजली भी पैदा होगी, जिससे बिहार ही नहीं, अन्य प्रदेश भी लाभांवित होंगे। बिहार में तीसरी बार विनाशकारी बाढ़ आई है। हम इसकी संवेदनशीलता को बयान नहीं कर सकते। मैं सरकार से स्पेसफिक जानना चाहता हूं कि जेपीओ में कब तक सरकार डीपीओ तैयार करेगी और कब तक लागू होगी? अगर समयबद्ध कार्यक्रम के अनुसार डीपी आर सरकार तय कर रही है तो उसकी प्रगति क्या है? यह बहुत गम्भीर मामला है।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: सीरियस होने की वजह से ही तो इस विषय पर १०-१२ घंटे बहस हुई है।

चौधरी लाल सिंह (उधमपुर): उपाध्यक्ष जी, यहां पर दोनों सम्बन्धित मंत्री जी मौजूद हैं। सोज़ साहब भी बैठे हैं और पाटील साहब भी विराजमान हैं। हमारे राज्य में उज्ज नामक नदी है। उससे हमें हर साल काफी नुकसान होता है। उसमें कोई वाटर ट्रीटी नहीं है। उस पर बांध बनाने के लिए योजना बनाई गई थी। मैं सरकार से जानना चाहता हूं कि क्या आप उस योजना को ले रहे हैं? अगर उस योजना पर काम हो जाए तो हमारे यहां बाढ़ रुक जाएगी, करीब १४,००० हेक्टेयर जमीन की सिंचाई हो सकेगी और २८० मेगावाट बिजली भी पैदा होगी।

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH):  Sir, I thank you very much for giving this chance. I just want to seek a clarification from the hon. Minister. This time, the floods have been described by the UN also as the worst ever floods in the living memory.  Last time, when the floods occurred in various parts of the country, the Government of India had given extraordinary relief  other than the relief from CRF and NCCF to the tune of thousands of crores of rupees – you have very well said – to Tsunami and to Mumbai in Maharashtra and various other places.  Therefore, I want to seek a clarification. Considering the worst-ever floods in the country, I would like to know whether the Government of India is proposing to give extraordinary relief packages to the worst-affected States like Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Kerala, etc.

            Regarding interlinking of river waters, in the Task Force Report of Shri Suresh Prabhu, it has been mentioned that by interlinking of waters, there will be flood mitigation to the extent of 30 per cent. It has also said about 8 crore acres of land can be irrigated and 44,000 MW of electricity can be generated.… (Interruptions) Therefore, what is the time-frame for implementing this?[R81] 

19.00 hrs.

SHRI M. SHIVANNA (CHAMRAJANAGAR): I associate myself with Shri Ananth Kumar.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Okay.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR):   Sir, I want to ask two specific questions. Sir, it is estimated by the Government of Kerala with all statistics and everything that Rs. 1500 crores of loss has occurred in that State and we requested from NCCF Rs. 562 crores.  With all the details, as per norms, this sum has been requested. Task force visited our area and it has been taken to various places. You could please tell us whether this money would be given or by when it would be given.  This is one thing.

 Secondly, Sir, we have been faced with the problem of sea erosion.  The total coast of Kerala is sea coast, and sea erosion is a big problem for us.  Secondly, in the hilly areas, it is land slide.  Both these things are not included in the list of national calamities in Disaster Management Bill.  These are not considered as disasters in the Bill.  I conclude by requesting him whether the Ministry will bring an amendment to the Act to include sea erosion and land slide as disasters.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Dr. K.S. Manoj, Shrimati C.S. Sujatha  and Shrimati  P. Satheedevi are allowed to associate on the matter raised by Shri Chandrappan.

 

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आपदा में आता है।

श्री शंखलाल माझी (अकबरपुर) : àÉé +É{ÉxÉä BÉEÉä ¶ÉèãÉäxp BÉÖEàÉÉ® VÉÉÒ BÉEä ºÉÉlÉ AºÉÉäÉʺÉA] BÉE®iÉÉ cÚÆ*

श्री राजनारायन बुधौलिया (हमीरपुर, उ०प्र०) : उपाध्यक्ष जी, मैं भी अपने को शैलेन्द्र कुमार जी के साथ एसोसिएट करता हूं।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है, आप दोनों को शैलेन्द्र कुमार के साथ एसोसिएट किया जाता है।

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): This year, during the time of very severe flood in my area, I had one new experience.  The Government of Orissa through its SURI fund has only constructed concrete roads. It may be that the length of the road is less, but it only constructed the concrete roads.  During the time of flood, the concrete roads became the only sustainable place where the people could live in those times, they could cook, they could put their cattle there, they could stay.  So, can the Government of India make a national policy that only in these flood affected areas, with whatever the money that is available, only the concrete roads must be constructed and no other roads must be constructed.  Can it be possible, Sir?

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL):   The hon. Home Minister was detailing the duties and obligations provided to each institution under the Constitution. In doing so, I take this opportunity to draw his attention to some factors in this House.  The whole thing is that the nature is playing the role of the terrorist. Like a terrorist attack, nature is causing loss of properties to all human beings by doing disaster. The losses sustained by the people are very heavy and terrible.[MSOffice82] 

            Now I understand that there is a disaster management mechanism. This must be made a permanent arrangement to meet any eventuality in the event of natural calamities like landslides, floods etc.

            Then, there are several complaints from different States about discrimination shown in helping the States with relief measures. The resources are with the Centre. Admittedly the States do not have enough resources to deal with such an eventuality. So, in this matter, the Centre should take a very lenient attitude and on no account there should be any complaint from any State Government regarding discrimination. As far as my State of Kerala is concerned, even the Central Investigation Team came very late. They did not come immediately after the flood occurred. So, there must be some arrangement that whenever there is a disaster immediate relief measures should be provided by the Centre.

            Then, the bureaucracy is not performing its duty properly when such a calamity occurs. The District Collectors and other officials do not rise to the occasion and only the affected people will have to rise to the occasion. So, I would request the Central Government to train the bureaucracy properly so that they treat the matter seriously and deal with the situation effectively whenever such an eventuality occurs.

SHRI PRABODH PANDA (MIDNAPORE): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek only two clarifications from the hon. Minister.

            First of all, it is reported that not less than 22 States are affected by floods and the agricultural sector and the farmers are the worst hit. So, I would like to know whether the Government is considering writing off the agricultural loans taken by farmers in the flood affected areas.

            Secondly, in many places the National Highways and the Golden Quadrilateral also have become the cause of floods in different States. So, I would like to know whether the Ministry of National Highways will take this matter seriously.

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : ={ÉÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, àÉÉxÉxÉÉÒªÉ àÉÆjÉÉÒ VÉÉÒ xÉä ¤ÉcÖiÉ ÉʴɺiÉÉ® ºÉä JÉÉºÉ iÉÉè® {É® ÉʤÉcÉ® BÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå SÉSÉÉÇ BÉEÉÒ cè*

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप कृपया प्रश्न पूछिए। श्री डी.पी. यादव जी भी बोले थे, आपका प्रश्न क्या है?

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं प्रश्न पर ही आ रहा हूं। माननीय मंत्री जी ने स्वयं कहा है कि बिहार की दीर्घकालिक समस्या के लिए प्रयास हो रहे हैं। नेपाल सरकार से बात करनी है, उसके लिए तीन विभागों का महत्वपूर्ण योगदान है। विदेश मंत्रालय की चर्चा मंत्री जी ने स्वयं की है। इसके साथ गृह मंत्रालय और जल संसाधन मंत्रालय, इन विभागों का आपस में सहयोग होगा, तभी नेपाल सरकार से बात करके, जो डैम बांधने की बात कही जा रही है, उसका समाधान निकल पाएगा। जिसके लिए राशि भी आबंटित की गई है और जल संसाधन मंत्रालय अपना काम कर रहा है।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : राम कृपाल जी, आप प्रश्न पूछिए।

श्री राम कृपाल यादव : àÉcÉänªÉ, àÉé £ÉÉ­ÉhÉ xÉcÉÓ BÉE® ®cÉ cÚÆ +ÉÉè® +É{ÉxÉä |ɶxÉ {É® +ÉÉ ®cÉ cÚÆ* àÉé àÉÉxÉxÉÉÒªÉ àÉÆjÉÉÒ VÉÉÒ ºÉä +ÉÉ{ÉBÉEä àÉÉvªÉàÉ ºÉä VÉÉxÉxÉÉ SÉÉciÉÉ cÚÆ ÉÊBÉE BÉDªÉÉ MÉßc àÉÆjÉÉãɪÉ, ÉÊ´Énä¶É àÉÆjÉÉãÉªÉ +ÉÉè® VÉãÉ ºÉƺÉÉvÉxÉ àÉÆjÉÉãÉªÉ ÉÊàÉãÉ BÉE® BÉEÉäÉÌbxÉä¶ÉxÉ BÉEàÉä]ÉÒ ¤ÉxÉÉAMÉÉÒ, ºÉàɪÉ-ºÉàÉªÉ {É® VÉÉä |ÉÉäOÉäºÉ cÉä ®cÉÒ cè, àÉÉÒÉË]MÉ BÉE®BÉEä, xÉä{ÉÉãÉ ºÉä ¤ÉÉiÉ BÉE®BÉEä cÉ<Ç bèàÉ ¤ÉxÉÉxÉä BÉEÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ SÉãÉ ®cÉÒ cè, =ºÉ {É® BÉEɪÉÇ´ÉÉcÉÒ BÉE®ä? BÉEÉä<Ç xÉÉäbãÉ ÉÊàÉÉÊxɺ]ÅÉÒ ¤ÉxÉÉ nä, VÉÉä ºÉàɪÉ-ºÉàÉªÉ {É® <ºÉ BÉEÉàÉ {É® vªÉÉxÉ nä*

महोदय, मेरा एक और छोटा सा प्रश्न है। मंत्री जी ने स्वयं जा कर देखा है और बताया है कि वहां समुद्र सा द्ृश्य दिखाई दे रहा था। माननीय मंत्री जी से मैं निवेदन करूंगा कि करोड़ों-अरबों रुपयों की क्षति हुई है और जैसा कि मुझे जानकारी है, तात्कालिक रूप से आपने राशि भी आबंटित की है। मैं आपसे यह जानना चाहूंगा कि सीआरएफ और एनसीएफ में बिहारवासियों को राहत पहुंचाने के लिए तात्कालिक रूप से कितनी राशि अभी तक आबंटित की गई है?[R83] 

SHRIMATI TEJASWINI SEERAMESH : Sir, Greater Bangalore is suffering from lack of sufficient drinking water.  I would like to know from the hon. Minister of Water Resources whether there is any proposal to provide sufficient drinking water to that area.  Last time, I raised this demand in the House and suggested to construct a barrage in my constituency Satnur on the Cauvery river near Sangam.  It will also connect Coimbatore and it will benefit both the States, especially, the people of Bangalore.

            Secondly, I would like to know whether I can contribute through my MPLAD fund to build houses for the people who have lost their houses due to floods.  Sir, I would also like to draw the attention of the hon. Home Minister that in my State of Karnataka, in Chikmangalur, naxalism is increasing and a lot of such incidents have taken place there.  Is there any specific help from the Centre to address this problem effectively?

श्री हरिभाऊ राठौड़ (यवतमाल): ={ÉÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, ÉÊ{ÉUãÉä ºÉÉãÉ àÉcɮɭ]Å àÉå VÉ¤É ¤ÉÉfà +ÉÉ<Ç lÉÉÒ iÉÉä BÉEÉ{ÉEÉÒ àÉnn ÉÊàÉãÉÉÒ lÉÉÒ ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ àÉÉxÉxÉÉÒªÉ |ÉvÉÉxÉ àÉÆjÉÉÒ VÉÉÒ xÉä ABÉE àÉÉÒÉË]MÉ àÉå ¤ÉiÉɪÉÉ lÉÉ ÉÊBÉE VÉcÉÆ  ºÉÖxÉÉàÉÉÒ ºÉä xÉÖBÉEºÉÉxÉ cÖ+ÉÉ lÉÉ, ´ÉèºÉä cÉÒ ´ÉcÉÆ ÉÊ®cèÉʤÉã]ä¶ÉxÉ BÉE®åMÉä* àÉä®ä ÉÊVÉãÉä àÉå ¤ÉÉfà BÉEä BÉEÉ®hÉ àÉBÉEÉxÉ ¤Éc MÉA ãÉäÉÊBÉExÉ +É£ÉÉÒ iÉBÉE ABÉE àÉBÉEÉxÉ xÉcÉÓ ¤ÉxÉÉ cè*

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप क्या चाहते हैं?

श्री हरिभाऊ राठौड़ : वहां अभी तक मकान नहीं बने हैं। पिछले साल से लोग टैम्पररी जगहों में शेयर करके रह रहे हैं और वे आस लगाए बैठे हैं कि सरकार कुछ करेगी। क्या माननीय मंत्री जी वहां के लोगों की कोई हैल्प करेंगे और क्या उनको मकान दिये जाएंगे?

SHRIMATI  P. SATHEEDEVI (BADAGARA): Sir, whenever any damages occur after these calamities as in the case of agricultural crops, the revenue officials calculate or assess the damages on the basis of norms prescribed by the Government.  These norms are prescribed so many years back.  Take, for example, the case of coconut garden.  For one hectare of a coconut garden a sum of Rs.6,000 is provided.  In the case of Kerala, in one hectare of land only 70 coconut trees can be planted and for one coconut tree only a sum of Rs.35 is provided.  I would like to know whether the Government will make changes in these norms, which were prescribed long back, considering the actual loss occurred.

            In the case of banana plantation, one banana sapling costs Rs.5 and the product cost is Rs.65.  So, as per the norms, it has no comparison to the actual loss.  I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether these prescribed norms will be changed considering the production cost, especially, in the agricultural sector.

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY (SRIPERUMBUDUR): Sir, from the hon. Minister’s reply, I have come to know that for the past four years a sum of Rs.21,000 crore has been spent for the national calamity relief.  I would like to know from the hon. Minister that instead of spending this much amount after the calamities, whether the Government would consider giving funds to the State Government to take some preventive steps, like for desiltation of lakes, rivers and for clearing the river channels.  Whether there is any proposal to assist the States accordingly?

श्री शिवराज वि. पाटील : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, सबसे पहला सवाल नेपाल के संबंध में है। हमारी नेपाल के साथ बातचीत चल रही है और बहुत दिनों से चल रही है। ऐसा देखा गया है कि नेपाल की सरकार हां भी कहती है, जिसका कभी-कभी वहां के लोग विरोध करते हैं जिससे अड़चनें आती हैं। यह दो सार्वभौम राष्ट्रों का काम है। आप अच्छी तरह से जानते हैं कि दो स्टेट्स का पानी का मसला सुलझाने में भी कितनी मुश्किल आती है। इस कारण सार्वभौम राष्ट्रों का मसला सुलझाना आसान नहीं है। इसलिए कोई टाइम फ्रेम देना बहुत मुश्किल है। हमारी कोशिश होगी कि यह मसला सुलझ जाए जिससे नेपाल के लोगों को भी मदद मिले और भारत के लोगों को भी मदद मिले। [a84] खास तौर से नेपाल की नदियों के पानी का असर बिहार पर बहुत ज्यादा होता है, बिहार के लोग भी यही चाहते हैं इसलिए हमारी कोशिश है कि जल्दी से जल्दी इसे करें। यह कहा गया है कि आपदा के लिए कोई खास पैकेज दिया जाएगा, मैं यही कह रहा था कि सीआरएफ, एनसीसीएफ और खास पैकेज क्या है? सीआरएफ में जो रकम तय हुई है, किस प्रांत को कितनी दी जानी है वह पांच साल के लिए तय हुई है। हर साल वहां पर कुछ हो या न हो, वहां दिया जाता है, उस पैसे का वे उपयोग कर सकते हैं। एनसीसीएफ में अगर इससे भी ज्यादा पैसे की जरूरत है तो खास तौर से एक टीम भेजकर, बुलाकर उसके मुताबिक दिया जाता है। जहां तक पैकेज देने का सवाल है, जैसा कि हमने सुनामी में दिया था, वह हम देते आए हैं। हमने कश्मीर में पैकेज दिया, सुनामी में पैकेज दिया और पिछले साल दक्षिण के कुछ प्रांतों में वर्षा बहुत ज्यादा हुई थी, वहां पैकेज दिए। इस साल भी बिहार में और दूसरे प्रांतों में बहुत नुकसान हुआ है, हमने अपनी आंखों से देखा है, पैकेज देने के सवाल को हल करने के लिए खास तौर से स्टेट गवर्नमेंट को देखना होगा।

श्री अनंत कुमार : हमारी मांग है जैसे आपने मुम्बई को दिया, बिहार को दिया, इसी तरह कर्नाटक को भी दीजिए।

श्री शिवराज वि. पाटील : पिछले साल बंगलौर में जाकर देकर आए थे। इस साल जैसी जरूरत है वैसे देंगे। कर्नाटक में पिछले साल यही सरकार थी, उसे जाकर देकर आए थे। गुजरात में किसी पक्ष की सरकार है, ये समझकर नहीं दिया, लोगों को समझकर दिया है। इसमें भी पैकेज देने के द्ृष्टिकोण को ध्यान में रखेंगे।…( व्यवधान)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, the worst affected State is Karnataka.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do not disturb the House.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I am going to each and every State.  I am saying that this is applicable to each and every State.  There will be no discrimination done.  We will take into account the suffering of the people.  Somebody asked whether 21 States are affected.  May I tell you that in 21 States, at some places, floods have affected the people.  But, if you say 21 States are affected, means the entire State is affected; that is not the case. Fortunately or unfortunately, we have States in which people are affected because of heavy rains in some districts, and people are suffering because of the drought conditions in other districts.  We have districts, not States in which some parts are affected by heavy flood and rains and some parts are not affected. They are affected because of the drought conditions.  These things will be taken into consideration.

            As far as Kerala is concerned, let me tell you that I had a discussion with your Chief Minister.  A delegation had come.  I had assured them that whatever funds are there – CRF – they are given.  We have sent the team to examine their demand for funds from NCCF.  That team has come back.  That matter is before the High Level Committee.  We are going to give them.  It will be a substantially big amount of money.  Over and above that, as some hon. Members from Kerala have rightly said that even that amount of money is not going to be sufficient.  And we realize that.  We are not saying that that amount of money is going to be sufficient. Please understand that amount of money under CRF and NCCF is the amount of money not for rehabilitation; it is for relief.  For rehabilitation, you need a lot of money; you need thousands of crores of rupees.  For that, you will have to prepare a plan; submit to us, and we will definitely take it to the Cabinet and the Cabinet will approve.  CRF money is given by Home Ministry.  NCCF money is given by High Level Committee; and money for rehabilitation is given by the Cabinet.[r85] 

            We will definitely take a sympathetic view.  That is the view which the Government has been taking.  You know that, last year, for Tsunami the Government was quite liberal in giving the fund, and we will not be stingy this year in giving the help for relief as well as rehabilitation. 

            For rehabilitation, the State Government has to come with a plan.  For relief, we will give you the money which is available with us.  We shall have to be careful in spending that amount of money also.  It is people’s money.  It should not be misused, the State Governments are definitely going to be very careful and we have no doubt about that.

            As far as sea erosion is concerned, it is a big issue.  The Government of Kerala has to come with a plan as to how they would like to do it, what is the amount of money required, and how much time it is going to take.  For rehabilitation, one big thing is that huge amount of money is required but one good thing is that money is not required in one year and it is required in two years or three years.  If you ask for, say Rs. 2,000 crore in three years’ time, then Rs. 500 crore or Rs. 600 crore can be given each year and that reduces the burden of the Union Government also.  We will take care of that.  But on sea erosion issue, we will consider only when a proper plan is prepared and sent to us.  We will get that plan examined by the Planning Commission and if it is found feasible, we will definitely like to do something but that has to come with a proper plan along with the opinion from experts and all those things because huge amount of money is required for this. … (Interruptions)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN : So, we will not get the benefit from the Disaster Management Fund. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: This is not disaster management.  You please understand that this cannot come from the Disaster Management Fund.  I told you how small the Disaster Management Fund is.  It is only Rs. 4,000 crore each year for all the States.  This amount is not going to be sufficient.  Some more amount of money is going to be given to us and even that is also not sufficient. This is going to require a huge amount of money.  If the State Government comes with a plan, we will be sympathetic towards that.  Instead of spending the money every year, if you prepare a plan, it will be helpful, and we will do that. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : What about the permanent solution of inter-linking of rivers?  You were saying something about it. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I will come to that.

जहां तक सांसद नधि के उपयोग का प्रश्न है, कुछ सम्माननीय सदस्यों ने पूछा है, आपने पूछा है और माननीय सदस्य, कर्नाटक ने भी पूछा है। मैं आपको बताना चाहूंगा कि गुजरात में जब अर्थक्वेक आया था तो हम लोगों ने भी अपने फंड से एक-एक करोड़ रुपया दिया था। …( व्यवधान) सुनामी में भी दस लाख रुपये दिये थे। मगर इसका निर्णय होम मनिस्ट्री नहीं लेती। इसका निर्णय स्पीकर साहब लेते हैं। आप लोग स्पीकर साहब से बात कीजिए। पहले भी ऐसा हुआ है और अगर जरूरत पड़ी तो इसमें आपको भी इजाजत मिल जायेगी। खास तौर पर उन स्टेट्स में इजाजत मिल जायेगी, जहां पर यह समस्या पैदा हुई है। लेकिन यह इजाजत इरिगेशन मनिस्ट्री या होम मनिस्ट्री की तरफ से नहीं मिलती है। यह साहब से अख्तियार की बात है, वह जैसा बोल दें …( व्यवधान)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Actually she was talking about building the individual houses.  It is not permissible under MPLADS. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Yes, we have given that money.  I know it very well that for building of the houses affected by natural calamities, we have permitted.  But let this be looked into by the hon. Speaker, and he will decide about this.  You please meet the hon. Speaker and he will take into consideration your suggestion.  We had done it.  I had contributed from my Fund, and many hon. Members had contributed from their Fund.  I contributed for constructing a hospital building.  Housing is also allowed but this has to be decided by the hon. Speaker.

            As far as National Highway and all those things are concerned, please do not worry about the National Highway.  The Government of India will take care of it. … (Interruptions)

            We are giving relief in agriculture.  Some hon. Members have said that the norms were prescribed many years back.  This is not true.  We have changed the norms only two months back.[R86] 

Before that, one year back, we had changed the norms.  We have given the money.  Please understand, what is given under the CRF is relief; it is not rehabilitation.  It is relief.  You have to distinguish between relief and rehabilitation. You should not take relief for rehabilitation. For rehabilitation, you shall have to come differenlly.

            Now, whether the loans can be waived, the interests can be waived, that is a matter which has to be considered by the Cabinet.  I am not in a position to say  yes or no on this point without consulting my Government, the Prime Minister, the Finance Minister, the Agriculture Minister and others.  But the situation is that we shall have to take a considerate view; and we will definitely like to take a considerate view as to how it can be taken, and whether it is possible or not, would ultimately be decided.

            Now, as far as training the bureaucracy is concerned  — Mr. Varkala Radhakrishnan  had suggested it – yes, of course, we shall have to train all of us, bureaucracy and everybody.   We have a system of training the bureaucracy under the Disaster Management Act, and we have the institute also. We are sending them there.

            As far as 22 States are concerned, please do not think that all areas of the 22 States are affected.  Unfortunately, last year, the Southern States were affected. Generally, the North-Eastern States specially Arunchal Pradesh; and West Bengal and Bihar  are affected by floods.  Fortunately, last year, they were not affected.  But this year, unfortunately, they are affected  and the flood situation is very, very bad there… (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN :  On the issue of rehabilitation, you leave it to the concerned State Governments.  We will give you the assistance.  This is the matter concerning the State Governments.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL:  If you had heard attentively to what I have said this question would not have arisen. The States have to prepare  plans for rehabilitation and send them to the Government of India. It is considered by the Planning Ministry and approved by the Cabinet.  It is not approved by the Home Ministry.  You cannot ask for thousands of crores of rupees.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : It will take years.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEKAER:  Mr. Radhakrishnan, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL:  It is not done in months. Relief is given in months.  Rehabilitation takes two to three years. As regards Tsunami, we are still constructing houses and roads.

            Please do not think that we have not changed the norms.  Unfortunately, I have been repeating it.  It is in this booklet. The last pages relate to the change of norms.  What were the norms we had accepted in the past and what are the changed norms?  We were paying Rs. 50,000 to the surviving members of the family of the  deceased; we have increased it to Rs. 1 lakh.  We were giving only Rs. 5,000 earlier for repairing the permanent houses; we have increased it to Rs. 25,000.  But it is relief.  Please do not mistake it for rehabilitation.  On rehabilitation, we will help.  But it has to be done through a different method; and rehabilitation is not something done in months.  In Latur, my Constituency, an earthquake took place and we took nearly five years to rehabilitate the people there. A large amount of money was given by the Union Government, by the foreign countries and others.  But then, that amount of money was not spent in one year’s time and that also helped us.  We were spending Rs. 2,000 crore to Rs. 3,000 crore a year. 

            The same thing happens to rehabilitation.  Unfortunately, when the floods take place, earthquakes take place, or cyclones take place, it takes time for rehabilitation; and it will take time. 

            Sir, I think I have been able to cover all points. Thank you… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Now, we will take up Special Mentions.  Shri M. Shivanna.

… (Interruptions)

चौधरी लाल सिंह :ºÉ®, àÉä®É ABÉE UÉä]É ºÉÉ ºÉ´ÉÉãÉ cè*…( व्यवधान)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Sir, what about interlinking of rivers?… (Interruptions)

            Sir, he is ready to speak on this issue.  It is a very important issue… (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: As far as the linking of rivers is concerned, let me tell you  that this is a very, very old scheme.  This scheme was given by Shri K.L. Rao during Mrs. Gandhi’s time, and in order to implement this scheme, the agreement between the States is most important. [r87]  If you do not have agreement between the States, it becomes very, very difficult to link the rivers between the States. If we are successful in bringing about the agreement between the States, it would be possible to link the rivers between the States. But as far as the linking of rivers in the State is concerned, it is an easier proposal as it would be possible for the State Governments to prepare a plan and give it to the Irrigation Ministry. The job of the Irrigation Ministry is to find out what quantity of water is there in the area, in the watershed area and all those things. Then, they come to the conclusion whether the scheme is feasible or not. But if any State is willing to interlink the rivers without affecting other States, it would be a very good idea but they shall have to prepare a plan and convince the States and the Union.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : The Task Force Report is in front of you. It gave its recommendation, and the Supreme Court has also ordered that interlinking of river waters shall be completed within a timeframe.    

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: That is a different thing. Your Government tried to do it but they could not do it.… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : We have initiated this. When are you going to complete Mr. Vajpayee’s dream project? Thirty per cent of floods can be mitigated by interlinking of river waters… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Ananth Kumar, please sit down.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: You did not initiate this. Please do not take credit for it. Your Government did not initiate this. Mrs. Gandhi had initiated it

 

                                                                                                                       

चौ. लाल सिंह : डिप्टी स्पीकर साहब, मैंने जिस बैराज का जिक्र किया था…( व्यवधान)

जल संसाधन मंत्री (प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज़) :  ÉÊb{]ÉÒ º{ÉÉÒBÉE® ºÉÉc¤É, SÉÉè. ãÉÉãÉ É˺Éc VÉÉÒ xÉä =ºÉBÉEä ¤ÉÉ®ä àÉå àÉÖJiɺɮ JÉiÉ £ÉÉÒ àÉÖZÉä ÉÊãÉJÉÉ cè* àÉéxÉä ªÉc ºÉàÉZÉ ÉÊãɪÉÉ cè ÉÊBÉE =xÉBÉEä ¤Éè®ÉVÉ ºÉä BÉEÉ{ÉEÉÒ {ÉEɪÉnÉ cÉäMÉÉ* àÉéxÉä ¤ÉÉnãÉ ºÉÉc¤É BÉEÉä ºÉ®ºÉ®ÉÒ iÉÉè® {É® ¤ÉiÉɪÉÉ cè …( ´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

चौ. लाल सिंह : बादल साहब बीच में कहां से आ गये?

प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज़ : बादल साहब का पहला रैस्पांस अच्छा है। मझेे लगता है कि पंजाब से भी इसका ताल्लुक है। इस वक्त यह नहीं बन सकता है…( व्यवधान)

 

 

 

… (Interruptions)

19.33 hrs.

(At this stage, Shri C.K. Chandrappan and some other

hon. Members left the House.)

19.33¼ hrs.

(At this stage, Shrimati C.S. Sujatha and some other

hon. Members left the House.)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up Special Mention. Shri Shivanna. Please complete it within one minute.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Mr. Shivanna’s speech.

(Interruptions)*