Posted On by &filed under Judgements.


Lok Sabha Debates
Raised A Discussion On The Statement Made By The Minister Of Home … on 3 August, 1998


nt>
Title: Raised a discussion on the statement made by the Minister of Home Affairs regarding deportation of certain people by Maharashtra Government. (Not concluded)
18.43 hrs. सभापति महोदय : अब नियम १९३ के अंतर्गत बहस प्रारंभ होती है। श्रीमती गीता मुखर्जी बहस शुरू करेंगी।

SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE (PANSKURA): Hon. Chairman, Sir, my name is first in the list, but my brother Hannan Mollah has requested that he may be given the first chance to speak. I have agreed to that. His name is also there in the list. So, kindly call him first, and I will speak later.

श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह (उलूबेरिया) : सभापति महोदय, मैं आपका आभारी हूं और गीता दी का भी बहुत आभारी हूं कि उन्होंने मुझे इस विषय को शुरु करने का मौका दिया। मैं बहुत दुख के साथ कहना चाहता हूं कि बंगाली भाषा बोलने वाले लोगों की समस्या आज नई नहीं उठ रही है। पिछले सात-आठ साल से मैं इस हाउस में अकेला चिल्लाता रहा हूं।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) Eò¦ÉÒ-Eò¦ÉÒ ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä VÉÉä<xÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, ½þ¨Éä¶ÉÉ xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* +É{ÉxÉä ¦ÉÒ ÊEòªÉÉ, <ºÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ¤É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ* ¨ÉMÉ®ú ¤ÉÉiÉ ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É +ÉVÉ BäºÉÒ {ÉÊ®úʺlÉÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ {ɽþÖÆSÉ SÉÖEòÉ ½þè ÊEò <ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÉʱÉǪÉɨÉäÆ]õ ¨ÉäÆ BEò ºÉ½þ¨ÉÊiÉ, BEò ®úÉªÉ ¤ÉxÉxÉÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ VÉ°ü®úÒ ½þÉä MɪÉÉ ½þè* मैं पहले एक बात साफ करना चाहूंगा कि एक इंटरैस्टेड कवार्टर से लगातार बंगलादेशी और बंगलाभाषी में कन्फयूज़ करने की एक कोशिश होती है। यह कॉमन सेंस है कि अंग्रेज और अंग्रेजी बोलने वाला एक नहीं है। वैसे ही बंगलाभाषी और बंगलादेशी एक नहीं हो सकते। मगर बंगलाभाषी और बंगलादेशी में कन्फयूज़न करने का एक लगातार प्रयास हम देखते हैं। मैं अपनी पार्टी की तरफ से साफ करना चाहता हूं कि हम लोगों ने कभी बंगलादेशी का ब्रीफ नहीं लिया। हमारी साफ बात है कि जो विदेशी है, उसे हिन्दुस्तान में जबरदस्ती या गैरकानूनी रुप से रहने का कोई हक नहीं है। यह सरकार की बेवकूफी है, नाकामयाबी है, जो वह उनको पकड़ नहीं सकती। जैसे पुलिस काम करती है, जब मार-पीट होती है तो गुंडा भाग जाता है और अच्छे लोगों को पुलिस पकड़ती है। यह जो पुलिस का, प्रशासन का

*है, यह हमारे देश की सरकार का भी है कि असली अपराधी को पकड़ नहीं सकते। श्री मोहन रावले (मुम्बई दक्षिण-मध्य) : यह शब्द अनपार्िलयामेंटरी है। श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह : मैं अनपार्िलयामेंटरी वर्ड विदड़ा कर रहा हूं। आज प्रशासन और पुलिस सही अपराधी को पकड़ नहीं सकते और दूसरे लोगों को पकड़कर फंसाते हैं। हमारे प्रशासन की यह जो परम्परा है, इसके शिकार भी बंगलाभाषी लोग हो रहे हैं, यह भी हमारा कहना है। मैं पहले यह बात साफ करना चाहता हूं कि विदेशी को आइडैंटीफाई करना, चुनना, उसको स्क़ूटनाइज़ करना और उसके बाद उस पर मुकदमा चलाना और उसको अपने देश में भेजना सरकार का कर्तव्य बनता है। सरकार इस जिम्मेदारी को पूरा नहीं कर पायी, उसकी जिम्मेदारी को आम गरीब लोग पूरा नहीं कर सकते हैं। दूसरी बात यह है कि हमारे देश में आइडेंटीफाई करने का तरीका ब्रटिश टाइम का है, वार टाइम का कानून है। यह कानून भी थोड़ा साम्राज्यवादी बना है। इसके तहत जिस आदमी को पकड़ा जाता है, उसको प्रूव करने की जिम्मेदारी उसकी होती है तो एडमनिस्ट्रेशन कया घास काटेगा? आज के जमाने में एडमनिस्ट्रेशन को यह जिम्मेदारी लेनी चाहिए। आम गरीब लोग कहां से प्रूव करेगा? यहां जितने लोग बैठे हैं, किसके पास बर्थ सर्िटफिकेट है? किसी के पास नहीं है, ९० परसेंट लोगों के पास नहीं है। जो नये बच्चे हैं, उनके २-४ के पास हो सकता है, बाकी किसी के पास नहीं है, हमारी यह स्िथति है। एक तो जन्म का सर्िटफिकेट किसी को मालूम ही नहीं है, यह परस्िथति है। इसलिए कानून को भी बदलने की जरूरत है। तीसरी बात यह है कि किसी विदेशी को डिपोर्ट करना है तो मानवीय रूप से करना चाहिए। विदेशी भी इन्सान हैं, जानवर नहीं हैं, गाय बैल नहीं हैं। हम लोगों ने जैसा देखा, उसके अनुसार ट्रेन की खिड़की में जो लोहे की रॉड होती है, उसके साथ चैन से बांधकर ले जाना हमारे देश के लिए, हमारी सभ्यता के लिए कलंक है। इस तरह से काम नहीं होना चाहिए और सही तरीके से उनको डिपोर्ट करना चाहिए। जैसा हमने चकमा का किया था, उस देश के साथ बातचीत की थी और बातचीत करने के बाद एकसटर्नल अफेयर्स मनिस्ट्री दोनों ने मिलकर उनको एकसचेंज किया था। यह तो तरीका होता है, इसलिए मेरा यह सुझाव है।

__________________________________________________________________________

* Expunged as ordered by the chair. पहली बात यह है कि विदेशी बात को लाकर आज की आलोचना को कोई कन्फयूज न करे। विदेशी को डिपोर्ट करने का सही तरीका हम तय करें। उसके लिए एकट में बदलाव लायें और साथ ही साथ एकसटर्नल अफेयर्स मनिस्ट्री के द्वारा हम सही तरीके से डिपोर्ट करें। इसके बारे में हमारी साफ बात है, कोई ऐसा न बताये कि हम बंगलादेशी के लिए ब्रीफ दी है। हमने अखबारों में पढ़ा है कि हमारे देश में २० लाख नेपाली हैं, कुछ लाख बंगलादेशी हैं या श्रीलंका से आये हुए तमिल हैं। श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्त (मिदनापुर): पाकिस्तानी भी हैं। श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह : कुछ पाकिस्तानी भी हैं। जहां तक उनको आइडेंटीफाई करके डिपोर्टेशन की बात है, यह जारी रहनी चाहिए। वैसे भी गरीब देश से लोग थोड़े बेहतर देश में काम के लिए जाते ही हैं। ऐसे लोगों को हम मजदूर के रूप में इस्तेमाल करते हैं। फिर अमानवीय बर्ताव भी उनके साथ करते हैं। मेरा सुझाव है कि ऐसे लोगों की रजिस्टरी करनी चाहिए और उन्हें वर्क परमिट मिलना चाहिए, जिससे वे यहां काम कर सकें और उसके बाद वापस लौट जाएं। मगर उनके ऊपर किसी तरह का दबाव नहीं होना चाहिए।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä nùä¶É Eòä ¦ÉÒ ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®úÒ ªÉÉ EòÉ¨É Eòä ʱÉB +®ú¤É nùä¶ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ VÉ°ü®úiÉ ½þè iÉÉä ½þ¨É BäºÉä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä EòÉ¨É nùäiÉä ½þèÆ* मैं कुछ बातें इस सम्बन्ध में यहां रखना चाहता हूं। हाल ही में महाराष्ट्र में घटना घटी। वहां बंगलादेशी और बंगला बोलने वालों में कंफयुजन पैदा किया जा रहा है। मेरे निर्वाचन क्षेत्र में मेरे जिले और आसपास के जिलों से नौजवान वहां काम के लिए गए हुए हैं। मेरे क्षेत्र में ८०-९० प्रतिशत लोग मुसलमान हैं। वे लोग मुम्बई आदि जगह पर जरी का काम करते हैं, साड़ी बनाने का काम करते हैं या सुनार का काम करते हैं या फिर डायमंड पालिश करते हैं। ये लोग ये काम बचपन से ही करते हैं। हमारे यहां के लोग जो यहां ऐसा काम करते हैं, इनको और किसी राज्य से ऐसे लोग नहीं मिलते, कयोंकि इनके पास बचपन से ही इन कामों का हुनर है। अगर इन उद्योगों को जारी रखना है तो फिर इन लोगों की सुरक्षा भी करनी पड़ेगी। लेकिन आजकल इन पर हमला हो रहा है। हमारे यहां के लोग बंगला बोलते हैं और ये लोग पश्िचम बंगाल से वभिन्न जगहों से यहां काम की तलाश में आते हैं। कुछ लोग बिहार से और अन्य जगहों से भी आते हैं। ये लोग कलस्टर के रूप में, एक किराए के कमरे में १०-१२ लोग रहते हैं। जब ये लोग बंगला बोलते हुए वी.टी. स्टेशन से जाते हैं तो पुलिस इन्हें पकड़ कर ले जाती है। वैसे भी पुलिस किसी की नहीं है। कभी-कभी ये बाहर भी जाते हैं। पुलिस इनको पकड़ कर थाने में ले जाती है और इनसे रिहाई की एवज में दो हजार रुपये या पांच हजार रुपये तक मांगती है। जो पैसे दे देता है उसको छोड़ दिया जाता है, बाकी पांच-सात दिन के लिए जेल में बंद कर दिया जाता है। फिर इनको कहा जाता है कि तुम प्रमाणित करो कि भारत के नागरिक हो। ये लोग अनपढ़ हैं, इनके मां-बाप भी अनपढ़ होते हैं, वे जल्दी से सारे कागजात मुहैया नहीं करा सकते। इस पर पुलिस वाले इन पर जुल्म करते हैं, इनको खाना नहीं मिलता और आखिर में इनका डिपोर्टेशन किया जाता है। पिछली २२-२३ और २४ जुलाई को तीन-चार बैच में महाराष्ट्र में ऐसे कुछ लोगों को पकड़कर कुर्ला एकसप्रेस के द्वारा पश्िचम बंगाल के जरिए बंगलादेश पहुंचा गया। मैंने १७ तारीख को इस मामले को उठाया था और २३ तारीख को भी उठाया। मैं २२ तारीख को आडवाणी जी से भी मिला। शिव सेना के सांसद मोहन रावले जी से भी मिला और कहा कि ये लोग हमारे गांव के हैं, मैं इनको बाई फेस पहचानता हूं, इनके साथ जुल्म हो रहा है, इन्हें बचाएं। मगर कुछ नहीं हुआ। उनको गाड़ी में बिठा दिया। जब यह सब बात बंगला अखबार में आ गई तो हमारे जिले व गांव के पन्द्रह-बीस हजार लोग स्टेशन पर आ गए और गाड़ी को घेर लिया। गाड़ी को घेरकर उन्होंने देखा कि एक कमरे में चैन के साथ वे सब बंधे हुए हैं। वे लोग चिल्लाए। वहां महाराष्ट्र पुलिस के १४ सिपाही भी थे। जब इतनी बड़ी भीड़ को देखा तो पुलिस ने उनको जिस चैन के साथ बंधे हुए थे, चैन खोल दी। हमारे एक एम.एल.ए. भी थे। इतनी बड़ी भीड़ देखकर हर कोई सोचता है कि कहीं गाड़ी न जला दे तो उसी तरह से परस्िथति को कंट्रोल करना पड़ता है। आपको मालूम है कि पुलिस कैसे उनको डीपोर्ट करती है? उनको बॉर्डर पर ले जाया जाता है और पुश-बैक होता है। बंगलादेश कहता है कि ये हमारे देश के नहीं हैं और फिर उनको धकका दिया जाता है, पुश-बैक होता है। उस परस्िथति में या तो बंगलादेश राइफल गोलियों से उनको मारेगा या फिर जेल में डाल देगा। जिंदगी भर जेल में उनको रहना पड़ेगा और इस बात का पता तक नहीं चलेगा। कितनी इन्हयूमन परस्िथति है? बंगलाभाषी लोगों के ऊपर यह जुल्म है। इस तरह की परस्िथति को मैं बार-बार हाउस की नज़र में लाना चाहता हूं ताकि इस समस्या को सुलझाया जाए। जब मुम्बई में पुलिस इन लोगों को पकड़कर ले जाती है कि ये बंगलादेशी हैं। जबकि इन लोगों के पास राशन-कार्ड की ज़रॉकस कॉपी होती है या एम.एल.ए. का सर्िटफिकेट होता है। मैंने भी पांच हजार सर्िटफिकेट दिए हैं। रोज दो सौ-तीन सौ सर्िटफिकेट हमारे गांव के लोग ले जाते हैं। मुम्बई में तो यदि वे लोग चाय पीने जाते हैं या होटल में खाना खाने जाते हैं तो भी सर्िटफिकेट जेब में रखना पड़ता है। अगर बंगला में बात करेंगे तो उनको पुलिस पकड़ लेगी। पकड़कर सर्िटफिकेट फाड़ देते हैं। श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्त :हिन्दी सीखनी चाहिए।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह :हिन्दी भी बोलते हैं। उनके पास कुछ न कुछ प्रूफ जरूर होता है, राशन-कार्ड की ज़ीरॉकस कॉपी होती है या फोटो वाला वोटर कार्ड होता है लेकिन फिर भी यदि बंगला में बात करेंगे तो पुलिस उनको पकड़ लेती है। एक एग्जीकयूटिव ऑर्डर की कॉपी उनके पास है। उसी एग्जीकयूटिव ऑर्डर के तहत वे लोग डीपोर्ट कर रहे हैं। इस परिस्थति को मैं सदन की नजर में लाना चाहता हूं। यह घटना दिल्ली में भी दो-तीन बार हुई थी। जयपुर, अजमेर में भी हुई थी। जब इस सदन में इस बारे में आवाज उठाई जाती है तो यह सब बंद हो जाता है लेकिन फिर दुबारा शुरु हो जाता है। महाराष्ट्र सरकार ने जो काम किया है, इस सरकार को थोड़ा सचेत होकर काम करना है। यह ठीक है कि सरकार का कर्तव्य है कि सरकार विदेशी को पकड़े, आइडेंटिफाई करे या डीपोर्ट करे या सविल कोर्ट में पेश करे लेकिन इसकी आड़ में बंगलादेशी लोगों पर जुल्म न किए जाएं, यही मेरा इस सदन के सामने निवेदन है। यह संविधान की धारा १५ ए के भी खिलाफ है जिसमें बताया गया है:

On the grounds of place of birth and religion जिस जगह में जन्म लिया है, उसी जगह में रहना है। यह हमारा मौलिक अधिकार है। लेकिन धर्म और जन्म लेने के स्थान के आधार पर उन्हें पकड़ा जाता है, यह मेरा आरोप है और यह गलत है। यह संविधान के आर्िटकल १५ ए के खिलाफ है। यह संविधान के आर्िटकल १४ के भी खिलाफ है कयोंकि इनके साथ बराबरी के साथ व्यवहार नहीं हो रहा है, यह मेरा दूसरा आरोप है।

19.00 hrs.

Thirdly, article 19 (1) (d) provides the right to move freely throughout the territory of India. – मतलब, किसी भी आदमी को पूरे हिन्दुस्तान में किसी भी जगह घूमने का हक है।

Fourthly, article 19 (1) (e) provides the right to reside and settle in any part of the territory of India. – कोई भी व्यकित किसी भी जगह जा सकता है और सैटल हो सकता है।

Fifthly, article 19 (1) (g) provides the freedom to practise any profession or to carry on any occupation, trade or business. हमारे हिन्दुस्तान में हर नागरिक को फ्रीली व्यापार करने का हक है। लेकिन इस हक पर भी हमला हो रहा है। छठा, संविधान की धारा २१ है, जिसमें पर्सनल लिबर्टी का हक है, इसके खिलाफ भी काम हो रहा है। इस प्रकार संविधान की छ: धाराओं के खिलाफ काम हो रहा है। इसके शिकार हमारे बंगला भाषी लोग है। इन लोगों की हिफाजत करने का दायित्व केन्द्रीय सरकार पर है। मैं केन्द्रीय सरकार से अपील करूंगा कि इसकी सहीं ढंग से जांच होनी चाहिए और उनको बचाया जाना चाहिए। मैं एक बात और कहना चाहता हूं। महाराष्ट्र पुलिस इन लोगों को ठीक तरह से पकड़ नहीं पा रही है। बंगाल में दो तरह के लोग हैं – एक वे जो पश्िचम बंगाल में रहते रहे हैं और दूसरे वे जो विभाजन के बाद १९४७ में बंगलादेश से आए हैं। उनकी भाषा से पता चल जाता है कि वे बंगलादेश से आए हैं। पश्िचम बंगाल के रहने वाले गाडी हैं और जो उधर से आए हैं, उनको बंगाल कहते हैं। इसे कोई भी व्यकित समझ सकता है। मनोरंजन भकत बंगाल है और हम घटि है। हमारी आइडेंटिटी है। बंगाल के लोग ईस्ट बंगाल कलब के सपोर्टर हैं और जो घटि(Ghoti)हैं, वे मोहन बागान्स कलब के सपोर्टर हैं। जो उधर के लोग हैं, उनकी भाषा अलग है और इधर के रहने वाले लोगों की भाषा अलग है। एक वाकय से पता चल जाता है कि कौन व्यकित है और कहां से आया है, लेकिन महाराष्ट्र की पुलिस इसको नहीं देखती है और भाषा को नहीं समझती है। जोकोई बंगला भाषा में बात करता है, उसी को पकड़ लेती है। यह भी एक समस्या है। इस पर सही ढंग से विचार करके नागरिको को इन हमलों से बचाया जा सकता है। अब मैं महाराष्ट्र के डिप्टी चीफ मनिस्टर ने पश्िचम बंगाल के होम मनिस्टर को जो पत्र लिखा है, उसके बारे में बताना चाहता हूं। उन्होंने पत्र में लिखा है – ठ

Thirty-four of such deportees duly permitted by the Court and with proper Deportation Order were sent by Kurla-Howrah Express on the 21st July, १९९८.” मैं इससे सहमत नहीं हूं, कयोंकि यह DSPका आर्डर है। हम इसका विरोध करते है। हमारे हिसाब से जो लोग पकड़े गये है, उनमें से ३८ लोग मिदनापुर-खडगपुर जेल में है। इनमें भी १३ बंगलादेशी हैं, चार बिहारी इंडियन्स हैं और बाकी बंगाली स्िपकिंग वैस्ट बंगाल के हैं। इस प्रकार तीनों ग्रुप्स में ५-१० परसेंट बंगलादेशी हैं और बाकी बंगाली स्िपकिंग हैं। इसलिए जो भावना पैदा करने की कोशिश हो रही है, मैं उसको चैलेंज करना चाहता हूं। मैं इस सदन का मैम्बर हूं। छ: बार चुन के आया हूँ । मैं चैलेंज करता हूं कि इस बार डिपोर्ट करने वाले लोगो में से ७०ज्ञ-८०ज्ञ बंगलाभाषी है । कुछ बंगलादेशी है । तो मैं इस सदन की मैम्बरशिप छोड़ने के लिए तैयार हूं। उधर से जो बदनाम करने की कोशिश कर रहा है, कया कोई मैम्बरशिप छोड़ने के लिए तैयार है? हमारे देश में क़मिनल प्रोसीजर कोड में ९९ परसेंट केसेज में बैनफिट-ऑफ-डाउट दिया जाता है। हमारे देश में जो बंगाली स्पीकिंग लोग हैं, उनको बंग्लादेशी बोल कर बदनाम किया जाता है। मेरा चेलैंज है कि अगर उनके पास कोई प्रुफ न हो तो उनको इस्तीफा देना चाहिए। हमें बहुत दुख और दर्द के साथ इस बात को रखना पड़ रहा है। जब हम घर जाएंगे तो हजारों लड़के हम से पूछेंगे कि जो वहां के एम.पीज़ हैं, उन्होंने हमारे लिए कया किया? उन सबको भी यही दर्द है। वेस्ट बंगाल के होम मनिस्टर ने महाराष्ट्र के मंत्री को जो पत्र लिखा है, मैं उससे सहमत हूं। उसमें कहा है-

“A group of people are sent to these States accompanied by the Maharashtra police personnel to be deported to Bangladesh. They were considered to be foreigners. But we have come to know that a number of so-called foreigners are, in fact, citizens of India and live in rural districts of West Bengal. बुद्धदेव भट्टाचार्य जी ने होम मनिस्टर को लिख कर बताया है। पश्िचम बंगाल के होम मनिस्टर ने महाराष्ट्र के होम मनिस्टर को यह पत्र लिखा है, मैं उससे सहमत हूं, कयोंकि मेजोरिटी में वे बंग्लाभाषी लोग हमारे पश्िचम बंगाल में रहने वाले लोग हैं। मेरी बात साबित हुई कि वहां आठ लोग गए- दो लोग एक बार गए और छ: लोग एक बार गए, जिनको पकड़ा था। हम इसलिए खुशी मनाते हैं कि हमारे जिले के लोगों ने आकर उन्हें रेसकयू किया। वे रेसकयू न होते तो शायद बंग्लादेश चला जाता। वे बंग्लादेश के जेल में मरते थे, मगर उन्हें बचाया। वे लोग कोर्ट में गए। वे लोग देश से भागने वाले नहीं हैं, मैं यह कहना चाहूंगा। हमने इस देश में जन्म लिया, हम इस देश में मरेंगे, इस देश से भाग कर, इस देश को छोड़ कर नहीं जाएंगे। हम कभी भी ऐसा नहीं करेंगे। जो हमारे देश का नागरिक है, उसकी हिफाजत करने की जिम्मेदारी हमारी है। इसलिए जो कलकत्ता हाईकोर्ट में गया, कलकत्ता हाईकोर्ट ने प्राइमाफेसी देख कर उसे स्टे दिया। जब वह केस फाइनल होगा, सारे प्रुफ के साथ मालूम पड़ेगा कि कौन बंगाली है और कौन बंग्लादेशी है तब दूध का दूध और पानी का पानी हो जाएगा। तब दुनिया के सामने साबित हो जाएगा कि हम गलत बोल रहे हैं या दूसरे लोग, जो हमें बदनाम करते हैं, जो बंग्लादेशियों को प्यार करते हैं उनके लिए बोल रहे हैं, यह बात साफ हो जाएगी। इसलिए कोर्ट की राय का इंतजार भी हम करते रहेंगे। हमारी जो कोर्ट में मांग है-

Indian citizens by birth have a constitutional right to reside anywhere. यह एक ग्राउंड है, जिस के लिए हम हाईकोर्ट गए। दूसरा ग्राउंड है, हमारे पश्िचम बंगाल के आर्टीजन्स को किसी भी टेरेटरी के हिस्से में जाकर काम करने का हक है। वह काम कर भी रहे हैं। तीसरा, जो एड़ेस दिया गया, उसमें एक तो एड़ेस पर इंकवायरी नहीं की, केवल यह पूछा कि तुम्हारा कुछ है। उन्होंने उधर ही रिपोर्ट की। वे कम से कम उसके एड़ेस पर जाकर उनके बारे में पूछ सकते थे। पश्िचम बंगाल सरकार को कह सकते थे कि यह एड़ेस सही है या गलत है? अगर नहीं मिलता तो उसकी रिपोर्ट सही ढंग से करते, तो शायद ऐसा न होता और लोगों पर जुल्म न होता। इसलिए यह जो काम इस सरकार ने किया है, यह बैड और इल्िलगल है, इसलिए हम इसके खिलाफ बोलते हैं। मैं चाहूंगा कि सरकार इस बात का ध्यान रखे। जो डेपोर्टेशन करने की कोशिश की है, उसकी पूरी छानबीन करें। हमारे देश में रहने वाले सिटीजंस पर कहीं हमला न हो जाए, वे लोग इस बात से डर रहे हैं। मेरे पास कल एक पत्र आया। मेरे गांव का एक लड़का जरी का कारखाना चलाता है। वह बोला, वारडाला के करीब ५०० लड़कों को पकड़ कर ले गए हैं। वे वारडाला, सतारा और जहां-जहां भी जरी का काम करते हैं, वे एक साथ रह कर काम करते हैं। वहां भी बंगाली बहुत हैं। उसके नजदीक एक रेलवे स्टेशन है। वहां भी एक कालोनी है। उधर से भी हमारे पास पत्र आया है। उसमें लिखा है ५०० से ज्यादा लड़के वारडाला से पकड़ कर ले गए। मैं ग्ृाह मंत्री जी से अनुरोध करूंगा कि आप इंटरवीन कीजिए। आपने जो स्टेटमेंट दिया, महाराष्ट्र सरकार को चार पैराग्राफ लिख कर दिए और बंग्ला सरकार को दो पैराग्राफ लिख कर दिए। आपकी कया जिम्मेदारी है? मुझे खुशी है कि आपने कम से कम उसको टाइटल में तो लिखा है- ठसर्टेन पीपल” बंग्लादेशी नहीं लिखा। मुझे खुशी है कि उसको आप भी मान रहे हैं। सब बंग्लादेशी नहीं हैं, इसलिए हैंडिंग में लिखा है ठसर्टेन पीपल” हम इस बात से खुश हैं। जिन लोगों को पकड़ा गया है पश्िचमी बंगाल सरकार के पास उनके नाम और घर का पता भेजकर उनकी सही ढंग से तहकीकात की जाए। अगर उनकी पहचान सही न मिले तब उनको कोर्ट में ट्रॉयल करके उनका निष्कासन सही ढंग से किया जाए। इस तरह से भविष्य में रैंडम डैपोर्टेशन किसी का न हो। इस बात को सुनश्िचत करने के लिए मैं आपसे प्रार्थना करता हूं। हमारे पश्िचम बंगाल के लोग गरीब और अनपढ़ हैं जिनको हम नौकरी नहीं दे सकते हैं और ये अपनी नौकरी खुद ही ढूंढ लेते हैं। ये अपना स्वयं का काम करके अपना गुजारा कर लेते हैं। ऐसे लोगों की आपको मदद करनी चाहिए न कि उनके ऊपर जुल्म करना चाहिए। किसी भी सभ्य सरकार के लिए ऐसा करना सही नहीं है। मेरी आपसे प्रार्थना है कि यह जो परस्िथति है इस पर आप गंभीरता से विचार करें। हम देखते हैं कि पश्िचम बंगाल में जो लोग घुसपैंठ करते हैं वहां की सरकार भी कोशिश करती है कि उनको वहां बसने न दिया जाए। मेरे पास आनंद बाजार पत्रिका है, इसमें लिखा है कि पिछले १० साल में ८० हजार बांग्लादेशी लोगों को हमारी सरकार ने बांग्लादेश वापस भेजा है जबकि यह पत्रिका हमारी बंगाल सरकार के खिलाफ रोज लिखती है। जहां तक फैंसिंग की बात है तो यह किसकी जिम्मेदारी है? कह देते हैं कि फैंसिंग जल्दी-जल्दी करो, तो यह जिम्मेदारी किसकी है? बार्डर सिकयोरिटी फोर्िसज को बढ़ाने की जिम्मेदारी भी केन्द्र सरकार की है। यह काम भी आप सही ढंग से करें और कानूनी तरीके से आप गैरकानूनी ढंग से रहने वाले लोगों को पकड़ कर कार्रवाई करें, लेकिन किसी भी सिटीजन पर जुल्म न हो, इस बात का आश्वासन मैं आपसे चाहूंगा। ग्ृाह मंत्री जी से एक आश्वासन मैं और चाहूंगा। मैंने जो तीन-चार काम बोले – जरी, गोल्डस्िमथ, टेलरिंग, पॉलशिंग के काम करने वाले हमारे एरिया के लोग हैं और ये गरीब लोग अपना काम करके अपनी रोजी-रोटी कमाते हैं और जिनकी संख्या मुम्बई में २०-२५ हजार से ज्यादा है। दिल्ली में भी इनकी संख्या २०-२५ हजार के करीब होगी।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨Éä®úÒ +É{ɺÉä |ÉÉlÉÇxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¨É½þÉ®úɹ]Å º]õä]õ ¨ÉäÆ BäºÉä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ {É®ú ½þ¨É±ÉÉ xÉ ½þÉä* nùºÉ ºÉÉ±É {ɽþ±Éä ¨É½þÉ®úɹ]Å ºÉä ¨ÉpùÉʺɪÉÉäÆ, iÉʨɱÉ, iÉä±ÉÖMÉÚ, EòxxÉc÷, ¨É±ÉªÉɱÉÒ EòÉä ¦ÉMÉɪÉÉ MɪÉÉ (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) nùºÉ ºÉÉ±É Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¦É<ªÉÉäÆ EòÉä ½þ]õɪÉÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) अभी यह काम बंगालियों के साथ हो रहा है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. CHAIRMAN :Please take your seat, Mr. Rawale.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please do not interrupt.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Hannan Mollah says. Please take your seat.

(Interruptions)*

________________________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded श्री अनंत गंगाराम गीते (रत्नागरि): आपको किसी स्टेट को बदनाम करने का अधिकार नहीं है

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{É {ÉÚ®úä º]õä]õ EòÉä ¤ÉnùxÉÉ¨É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. Let him complete.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. Please do not interrupt. You will also get a chance to speak. श्री रामदास अठावले (मुम्बई उत्तर-मध्य) : सभापति जी, मेरे निर्वाचन क्षेत्र में भी ऐसा हो रहा है

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ´É½þÉÆ BEò PÉ]õxÉÉ ½þÖ<Ç ½þè*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except Shri Hannan Mollah’s speech.

(Interruptions) *

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE (CALCUTTA SOUTH): Sir, I want to make only one submission.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me know whether he is yielding. Shri Hannan Mollah, are you yielding? He wants to conclude.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : He has yielded, Sir.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, now you can speak.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE:Sir, the matter is very sensitive. Everybody loves his own State. One should not utter anything against any State. We love every State as our own brothers and sisters. So, let us discuss the matter in a peaceful manner.

SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH : I only referred to certain incidents which had happened. ऐसी घटनाएं भविष्य में न हों यह सैंट्रल गवर्नमैंट को देखना है। जिन दो स्टेट गवर्नमैंटस के बीच मतभेद हो रहा है, उनको सैंट्रल गवर्नमैंट दूर करे और इस पर विचार करने का काम करे। होम मनिस्टर महाराष्ट्र और वैस्ट बंगाल के चीफ मनिस्टर्स को बुला कर इस प्राबलम को सॉल्व करने की कोशिश करें। वह ऑल पार्टी मीटिंग भी करवा सकते हैं। भविष्य में कोई भी नागरिक कंट्री में किसी जगह भी रहे, उस पर हमला न हो, वह इसके लिए आम सहमति बनाने की कोशिश करें। हिन्दुस्तान एक मजबूत राष्ट्र बने। हिन्दुस्तान को एकजुट रखने और आगे बढ़ाने का जो सपना है, उसे आप साकार करने का काम करें। इसी उम्मीद के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

______________________________________________________________

* Not Recorded

“>SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): Mr. Chairman Sir, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to discuss the matter under Rule 193. सभापति महोदय, बंगलादेशियों के बारे में इस सवर्ोच्च सदन में २७ तारीख को एक मसला आया था। इसके ऊपर बातचीत भी हुई। सदन में हर पार्टी ने अपनी बात रखी। इसके बाद आज यह मैटर डिसकशन के लिए आया है जो बहुत खुशी की बात है। हन्नान मोल्लाह जी ने यहां यह मैटर रखा। मैं उनको करीब दो-ढ़ाई साल से जानता हूं। मैंने इनके काम करने का भी तरीका देखा है। उन्होंने जो केस रखा, उसमें यह कहने की कोशिश की कि मुम्बई से पश्िचम बंगाल के लोगों को भगा दिया गया है। उनके साथ मार-पीट की गई। यदि बंगलादेशियों को वहां से निकाला जाता है तो उनके बारे में उन्हें कोई शिकायत नहीं है। उन्होंने ऐसी बात सदन में रखने की कोशिश की है जो एक अच्छी बात है। इसके बारे में हमें कोई शिकायत नहीं है। सभापति जी, सवाल यह है कि हमारे देश में जो बंगलादेशी हैं, पाकिस्तानी हैं, अन्य फॉरेनर्स हैं, उनका कया करना है? आपके यहां शायद इतनी समस्या नहीं होगी। अगर होगी तो आप उसे सॉल्व नहीं करना चाहते हैं। हमारे महाराष्ट्र में खास करके मुम्बई में बहुत बड़ी तादाद में विदेशी हैं। उनमें बंगलादेशी, पाकिस्तानी और अन्य कई लोग हैं। इन्द्रजीत गुप्त जी ने हमें इनके बारे में जानकारी इस सदन में दी थी। सौभाग्य से इन्द्रजीत गुप्त जी यहां बैठे हैं। उन्होंने ६ मई १९९७ को यहां जानकारी दी थी। यदि आप वे सब फीगर्स देखेंगे तो पता चलेगा कि समस्या कितना बड़ा रूप धारण कर रही है?

He said that there are ten million foreigners in the whole of India. हमारे देश में ऐसे दस मलियन लोग हैं। उनको बाहर करने का कौन सा तरीका है, मैंने ऐसा सवाल वहां खड़े होकर पूछा था? उन्होंने जवाब दिया

“All these powers have been delegated to the State Governments under the Foreigners Act and the State Governments are supposed to take action.” उन्होंने उस समय ऐसा जवाब दिया था। मेरे सामने यह समस्या है कि यदि सैंट्रल गवर्नमेंट कहती है कि स्टेट गवर्नमेंट फैसला करे और यहां पर सांसद कहते हैं कि सैंट्रल गवर्नमेंट को देखना चाहिये। अब हकीकत में कया करना चाहिये? यह अच्छा हुआ कि श्रीमती गीता मुखर्जी और श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह ने यह सवाल उठाया और इस पर कभी न कभी चर्चा होना आवश्यक था। आज अच्छा मौका आया है। मैंने तो पिछले साल श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्ता से प्रश्नोत्तर के सामय कहा था कि इस बारे में सदन में चर्चा हो जाये। उन्होंने मान लिया था लेकिन पता नहीं फिर यह सब्जैकट मैटर आया ही नहीं। श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्त ;उसके बाद यह हुआ कि हमारी सरकार को गिरा दिया। श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार ;हम लोगों ने नहीं गिराया। जो लोग उधर बैठे हैं, उन्होंने गिराया है। आप लोगों ने उनका आधार लेकर यह सरकार बनाई थी। किस आधार पर गिरा दी, यह आप जानते हैं। हमने तो आपसे कहा था कि यदि उनसे बचना चाहते हैं तो बचो। आप नहीं बचो तो मैं कया करूं? इसमे हमारी पार्टी का कोई कसूर नहीं था। मेरी जो भावना थी, वह मैंने बता दी । उस समय श्री गुप्त ने कहा था:

“Our problem is that those unidentified foreigners, who are living illegally, may belong to different nations with different purposes. They do not belong to Pakistan only. Their population is approximately ten million whereas our population is 100 million. It is possible that one out of ten people might have infiltrated. We are trying to identify them. I can give you the number of such persons who have been identified so far and tell you as to what action has been initiated against them.” श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्त :यह कब का है? श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :

It is an English version from Part 4 of the Debates of the Eleventh Lok Sabha. मैं महाराष्ट्र से आता हूं। आपको जिस मुम्बई से शिकायत है, मैं उस मुम्बई से आया हूं। इतना ही नहीं, हमारे क्षेत्र में जितने बंगलादेशी हैं, आपने इस संबंध में बहुत सारी बातें की हैं। आप मेरे साथ एक दिन मुम्बई आइये। मैं आपको बता देना चाहता हूं कि वहां पर बंगलादेशियों का इस्तेमाल किस ढंग से किया जा रहा है। आप इन्सानियत की बात करते हैं। उन लोगों को कौन सा इन्सान बताया जाता है? वे किस हालत में रहते हैं? आप लोग यहां पर केवल बातें उठाते हैं। आप वहां जाकर देखिये तो मालूम होगा कि उनकी हालत गुलामों से भी वर्सट है। और वह भी मुसलमानों द्वारा की जाती है। आप उनके घरों को देखो कि किस तरह से वे काम करते हैं तब आप लोग बात करिये। श्री लालू प्रसाद (मधेपुरा) : आप सरकार किसलिये चला रहे हैं? श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार : हम अपने देश के लोगों का सरकार चलाते हैं, बाहर वाले लोगों का नहीं चलाते हैं। यदि हम लोगों को बाहर के लोगों का सरकार चलाना हो तो देश के संविधान में बदली करना पड़ेगा और धर्मशास्त्र में डिकलेयर करना पड़ेगा कि हमारे देश में आओ, जाओ, यह घर तुम्हारा है, जो चाहे करो।

… (व्यवधान) .. सभापति जी, ऐसे टोका-टाकी तो अच्छा नहीं है। जब ये लोग बोले थे मैं चुप रहा। यदि टोका-टाकी करेंगे तो मैं जवाब देने वाला हूं। यदि आप टोका-टाकी नहीं करेंगे तो मैं जवाब नहीं दूंगा। सभापति महोदय :कोई टोका-टाकी नहीं करें। श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार ;यदि टोका-टाकी नही होगी तो ठीक है। मेरी बात सुन लीजिये। हम तो चाहते थे कि चर्चा कल हो जाती परन्तु किसी ने माना नहीं।

Shri Indrajit Gupta was kind enough to reply to all our queries. This particular question was discussed on 6th May, 1997 for half an hour. A lot of supplementaries were asked and he had replied to them. But, unfortunately, no corrective action was subsequently taken. There was no discussion at all. I can understand his position. After all, their Government collapsed on 4th December, 1997. I understand that there was no time for him to do anything. He should have got five years to work as the Home Minister. He should have got ample time to serve. That I can understand. I have no grumbles on that. जिनको मौका मिलता है वह लोग काम कर देंगे। महाराष्ट्र के बारे में मुझे बताना है। इसमें कोई नयी बात नहीं है कि फौरेनर्स वहां पर हैं और उनको बाहर करने के बारे में शरद पवार जी ने कहा था, मगर मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि फौरेनर्स को मुम्बई से बाहर करने की ऐकसरसाइज़ १९८२ से चल रही है। मेरे पास आंकड़े हैं और मैं सदन को बताना चाहता हूं कि जब कांग्रेस पार्टी का राज था और उनके मुख्य मंत्री थे तो कितने लोगों को उन्होंने डीपोर्ट किया था।

The same procedure that was laid down

at that time, has been followed now. Our Government has been criticised whereas nobody spoke at that time. Not even a single Member spoke against that deportation. That is also a fact. हमारे ऊपर इन्होंने जो लांछन लगाया वह ठीक नहीं था। उन्होंने कहा कि महाराष्ट्र से ऐसे लोगों को भगाया जाता है जिनके अंदर बिहारी लोग हैं, जिनके अंदर यूपी वाले लोग हैं, जिनके अंदर वॆस्ट बंगाल के लोग हैं। मैं आप सबको बताना चाहता हूं … (व्यवधान) श्री इंद्रजीत गुप्त :ये सब फौरेनर्स हैं? श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :ये उनका हमारे ऊपर इल्ज़ाम था। उनके जो वर्िडंग्ज़ थे वह मैं आपके सामने ज़रा पढ़कर सुनाना चाहता हूं और मैं उनको यह भी बताना चाहूंगा कि वह ऐस्टैबलिश करें कि महाराष्ट्र में १४ मार्च, १९९५ से हमारा शासन आने के बाद कितने बिहारियों को भगा दिया, कितने वॆस्ट बंगाल के लोगों को भगाया, कितने यूपी वालों को भगाया, उनकी सूची यहां दे देंगे तो अच्छा है।

I say this because he levelled charges against the State Government of Maharashtra in the House. He has to submit the figures now. Otherwise, he has to tender apology to this House. One should not make baseless allegations. The hon. Member alleged a little while ago that hundreds of South Indians were driven away from Mumbai city. Let the hon. Member show a single example. I do not ask him for more.

SHRI A.C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM): I can tell you the cases.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :If anyone has gone out only because of the harassment on the part of the Shiv Sena or of the Government, they should come out with the figures and then they should speak. After all when we talk in this august House, we make a statement. It is the responsibility of a Member of Parliament when he makes a statement in the House, to establish the truth behind that statement. That is how one should look at it. मैं यह सब आंकड़े देता हूं। उस समय उन्होंने जो यहां कहा था, मैं रॆकार्ड में लाना चाहता हूं। उसका जवाब देने की ज़िम्मेदारी शरद पवार जी करेंगे। उनके प्रति मेरे दिल में कोई गलत भावना नहीं है, लेकिन जब भी महाराष्ट्र का सवाल आता है तो कांग्रेस पार्टी वाले हमेशा उनको ही आगे कर देते हैं। अन्य सवाल आते हैं तो वह पीछे हैं। फौरेन मैटर्स पर डिसकशन में चर्चा में वह आगे नहीं आए, अनय किसी को आगे कर दिया गया।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆ E´ÉÉä]õ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ :- “…अध्यक्ष जी, कुछ मुस्िलम फौरेनर्स को मुम्बई से बाहर भेज दिया गया है। पिछले साल भी बीजेपी-शिवसेना गठजोड़ ने बंग्लादेशियों के नाम पर उत्तर प्रदेश, बिहार और वॆस्ट बंगाल के मुस्िलम लोगों को बाहर भेजा ता और आज भी यही स्िथति है। वे लोग बंग्लादेशी नहीं हैं। वे लोग मुस्िलम हैं, इसलिए मुम्बई से बाहर भेज दिया। भारत सरकार को इस बारे में कोई कदम उठाना चाहिए। यह स्िथति इस देश में धर्म के नाम पर, अन्य राज्यों के नाम पर हो रही है।…” यह शरद पवार जी ने २७ तारीख को सदन में कहा था। दूसरी बात उन्होंने कही है — मान्यवर, इसी साम्प्रदायिक शकित ने अपनी राजनीति की शुरूआत नार्थ इंडियंस और साउथ इंडियंस पर हमले करके शुरू की थी। आज अगर बिहार, उत्तर प्रदेश और वैस्ट बंगाल के किसी जिले से कोई मुस्िलम समाज का गरीब आदमी वहां रोजी-रोटी के नाम पर जाता है तो बंगलादेशी के नाम पर उन पर हमले होते है, उनके साथ सख्ती की जाती है और उनको वहां से बाहर भेजने की परस्िथति पैदा की जाती है। इतना सब होने के बाद भी भारत सरकार आज इस बारे में कोई कदम उठाने के लिए तैयार नहीं है। मुझे लगता है कि यह देश की एकता पर हमला है। जिस स्टेट में देश की एकता पर हमला होता हो, उस सरकार को सत्ता में रहने का कोई अधिकार नहीं है। भारत सरकार उनको डिसमिस करने का काम करे। मैं संसदीय कार्य मंत्री से जानना चाहता हूं कि वह बतायें कि इसके बाद सरकार की कया नीति रहेगी?…” सब्जैकट मैटर साइड में हो गया। यह बोलते हैं कि महाराष्ट्र सरकार को डिसमिस करो। चार वषर्ों से यह सपना देख रहे हैं कि सरकार को हटाओ, रोज सपना देखते हैं। लोगों ने आजकल दिन में भी सपने देखना शुरू कर दिया है। जब से हमारा शासन आया है तब से कोई न कोई बयान आ जाता है कि सरकार अभी गिरने वाली है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) श्री सोमनाथ चटर्जी (बोलपुर) : आप और आपके एलाइस ३५६ की मांग करते हैं। श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार : ३५६ की हमने कोई बात नहीं की है।

We never asked for that. I am stating what I said. Whenever the matter of article 356 has come up for discussion in this house, I opposed the same. It is not a proper method of utilising the power. ऐसा हमारा कहना है, लेकिन अंडर सरकम्सटांसिज कभी कोई डिसीजन ले लेते हैं। उसका जस्िटफिकेशन देना उनका काम है, जिन्होंने डिसीजन दिया है॥ मैं उस समय बोला था जब श्री नम्बूदरीपाद की गवर्नमेंट को निकाल दिया था, कया हुआ था। मैं इतनी पुरानी बात पर जाता हूं,

which is not the subject matter of today. इसलिए मैं इस पर नहीं जाता हूं। मैं शरद पवार जी के बारे में इतना जरूर कहूंगा कि जो उन्होंने यहां पर स्टेट किया है यदि उसके बारे में उनके पास कोई प्रूफस हों तो वह सदन में पेश करें, नहीं तो ऐसा कहना ठीक नहीं है। कम से कम यहां आकर कहें कि मैंने भावनावश बोल दिया। मुसलमानों के लिए इतनी प्रीत है, इतनी लगन है, इसलिए उन्होंने बोल दिया। मैंने उस दिन बोला था लेकिन मैंने ऐसा कुछ नहीं कहा था। मैंने कहा था कि मुस्िलम यदि हमारे देश के हैं तो वे हमारे हैं, यह हमारा आज से कहना नहीं है, भविष्य में भी रहेगा। लेकिन बाहर के मुसलमानों को यहां रहने का हक नहीं है, यह मैं कहता रहूंगा। आज ही नहीं आज से दस वर्ष के बाद भी यही कहूंगा। ाी हन्नान मोल्लाह :आप कह रहे हैं कि बाहर का कोई मुस्िलम नहीं रहेगा। … (व्यवधान) श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :बाहर के मुस्िलम से मेरा मतलब है नो फॉरेनर्स। … (व्यवधान) मैं यह बताना चाहता हूं

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

MR. CHAIRMAN :Order in the House, please. श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :उस दिन कया हुआ, २७ तारीख को जो बात यहां हुई थी कि हावड़ा में एक उलूबेरिया स्टेशन है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

I spell it as ULUBERIA. I may be wrong. I am open for correction. श्री इन्द्रजीत गुप्त (मिदनापुर): उलूबेरिया में कया हुआ?

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :अगर आपके बारे में मैं बोलूंगा कि आपके फादर कहां के थे और आप कहां के हैं, मैं इस डीटेल में नहीं जाना चाहता।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE :I know you are a very nice man. How are you in Shiv Sena?

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :I have all the respect for your father. Like that, I have respect for you also barring a few things. मैं इसके डीटेल में नहीं जाना चाहता। मैं यह कह रहा था कि उलूबेरिया स्टेशन पर लोगों को डीपोर्टेशन के लिए लाया जाता है। हमारा यह कहना है कि यदि डीपोर्टेशन के बारे में कोई शिकायत हो, यदि सरकार को मालूम था तो सरकार की मशीनरी को इसे वहां आकर रोकना चाहिए था। यह कौन सा तरीका है

He leads a mob of 10,000 or 15,000 people and attacked our Police force was attacked. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Do not interrupt.

… (Interruptions) श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार :मैं जो कह रहा हूं, यदि उसमें आपको कोई आपत्ित है तो आप उसे

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ <iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò <xÉEòä {ÉÉºÉ <iÉxÉä +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þÉäxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ªÉä |ÉÉäºÉÒVÉ®ú ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þä lÉä* +ÉVÉ ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉä nùä½þÉiÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ BäºÉÉ |ÉÉäºÉÒVÉ®ú ½þè ÊEò VÉ¤É EòèÊnùªÉÉäÆ EòÉä ±ÉäEò®ú VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ तो उनके हाथों में हथकड़ियां लगाते हैं।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÒ VÉMɽþ ±Éä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ, VÉä±É ºÉä ±ÉäEò®ú EòÉä]õÇ iÉEò ±Éä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

What is the security of the police? हमारे यहां मुम्बई शहर में ऐसा हुआ है कि कैदी को अस्पताल से ले जाते हैं तो वहां गोली चलाई जाती है, पुलिस के लोग मारे जाते हैं और वे कैदियों को भगाकर ले जाते हैं। ऐसे समय में कया करना चाहिए। डिपोर्टेशन के समय उनको कैसे ले जाना है, यदि उनको चेन से बांधना नहीं है, पेशाब के लिए छोड़ते हैं, खाने के लिए छोड़ते हैं और सब काम के लिए छोड़ते हैं।

Otherwise, how will 10-15 policemen control around 40 men? Try to understand this. It is the procedure and these people were carried on according to the procedure. मेरा कहना इतना है कि कया इसके बारे में कोई शिकायत वहां के पुलिस स्टेशन में दर्ज हुई है, कया किसी को अरैस्ट किया गया, कुछ हुआ या नहीं? यदि होगा तो लोग वेस्ट बंगाल गवर्नमैंट को बोल सकते हैं।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ =xÉEòÉ Bä±ÉÒMÉä¶ÉxÉ ½þè*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨Éä®úÒ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ BäºÉÒ xɽþÒÆ ½þè

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉäð{É®ú EòäºÉ nùVÉÇ Eò®úÉä +Éè®ú <iÉxÉÉ ¤Éc÷É ½þ¨É±ÉÉ ½þÉäxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù EòäºÉ nùVÉÇ xɽþÒÆ ½þÖ+É* ð{É®ú +]õèEò ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ ¡òÉäºÉÇ {É®ú +]õèEò xɽþÒÆ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB +Éè®ú =xÉEòÉä UôÖc÷´ÉÉxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* ªÉÊnù EòÉä<Ç Ê¶ÉEòɪÉiÉ lÉÒ iÉÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉ +ÉiÉä, {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉä ¤Éɽþ®ú ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉiÉä ÊEò BäºÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þè, +É{É {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ º]õä¶ÉxÉ SɱÉÉä +Éè®ú ±Éä VÉÉiÉä* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <ºÉ |ÉÉäºÉÒVÉ®ú EòÉä Bäb÷Éì{]õ Eò®úxÉä EòÒ EªÉÉ VÉ°ü®úiÉ lÉÒ* … (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¦ÉÒ E±ÉҪɮú ½þÉäxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB*

SHRI JAGAT VIR SINGH DRONA (KANPUR): They were not chained.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :I do not know. मेरा कहना है कि यदि वैस्ट बंगाल में एक ट्रेन पर इस तरह हमला होता है, हमारे वैस्ट बंगाल के सांसद हमेशा लॉ एंड आर्डर सिचुएशन के बारे में यहां बोलते हैं। मैं सोचता हूं कि कया हो सकता है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ MɱÉiÉ ½þè, BäºÉÉ +É{ÉEòÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ +ÆnùÉVÉÉ BäºÉÉ ®ú½þÉ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ BäºÉÉ ½þÖ+É*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{ÉxÉä +É`ö ½þVÉÉ®ú Ê{ÉUô±ÉÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ EòÉ VÉÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉÉ ½þè

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

I am just trying to understand. श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह : आपने बोला है कि आठ हजार लोगों को डिपोर्ट किया। … (व्यवधान)

MR. CHAIRMAN : He is not yielding. Are you yielding, Shri Sirpotdar? श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार : आपकी पुलिस है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨É±ÉÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

That is not the proper way. जब श्री शरद पवार और इनका शासन था, मेरे पास आंकड़े हैं।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ VÉÉä Êb÷{ÉÉä]õÇä¶ÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ lÉÉ, =ºÉEòÒ Ê¡òMɺÉÇ ¨Éä®úä {ÉÉºÉ ½þèÆ, ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä Ê®úEòÉb÷Ç ¨ÉäÆ ´É½þ ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÉ ½þÚÆ*

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) सभापति महोदय : अब आप समाप्त करिये। श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार : बंगालादेशी नागरिक १९८२ से १९९५ तक जो डिपोर्ट हुए … (व्यवधान) ५४३४

people were deported at a time during the Congress regime. जब से हमारा शासन आया, तब से आज तक २,६६९ तक बंगलादेशी निकाले गए।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) VÉ¤É ´É½þÉÆ {É®ú {ÉÉÊEòºiÉÉxÉÒ lÉä, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ 3,787 lÉä +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉxÉä 106 {ÉÉÊEòºiÉÉÊxɪÉÉäÆ EòÉä Êb÷{ÉÉä]õÇ Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ* ªÉÊnù ]õÉä]õ±É Ê¡òMÉ®ú nùäJÉäÆMÉä iÉÉä Eò®úÒ¤ÉxÉ 10,000 +ÉnùʨɪÉÉäÆ EòÉä

Approx. 10,000 people had already been deported. जिनको पकड़कर ले गए, उनको छुड़वा दिया। पुलिस के हाथ में है कि किसे छोड़ना है तो यह मौब साईकोलौजी हो गई।

I am worried about that. The message that we are sending is not proper and one should not do that. I understand that for twenty years this Communist regime has been working in West Bengal.

The Chief Ministers like Shri Jyothi Basu has been there for the last 20 years. He is very firm and very disciplined. All these things are there. But I am not going into how they behave with their own workers and what is the progress of the entire State. A disciplined man like him is there, yet, this is happening under his control. You know better what discipline is there in West Bengal. I am a third person. Everyday, you will go to West Bengal. (Interruptions) I will stick to the point. Unnecessarily, they are disrupting.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Madhukar Sirpotdar, please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :I would like to read from the statement made by some experts. मुम्बई के बंगाली लोगों ने जो बयान दिया है.. (Interruptions) वे सालों से हमारे पास रहते हैं।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

Just listen to me.

“The deportation of Bangladeshi immigrants staying illegally in Mumbai by the Maharashtra Government has created an unnecessary dust storm in the political field. The same people say that they are charged under Section 3A of the Foreigners Act and are produced before the Metropolitan Magistrate Court and after obtaining the due order from the Magistrate, they have been deported”.

This is not the only District Magistrate’s order. What he has stated is absolutely wrong. The authorities had proved before the Metropolitan Magistrate that they were Bangladeshis and after obtaining necessary orders, they were deported.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :I am concluding. Now the Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra….. (Interruptions) I am reading the names also. I am reading the contents. I am reading everybody’s name…. (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE :Was the statement given by some Bengalis? Are they Bengalis?

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :They are Bengalis living in Mumbai. I will read the names of all those people. They are (1) Shri Sudhir Kumar Choudhary, (2) Shri Sakhti Samantaray, (3) Shri Somnath Chakraborty, (4) Shri Basu Chatterjee. श्री सोमनाथ चटर्जी : स्टेटमैंट सही नहीं करने से भगा देंगे।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :Then, (5) Shri Chander Maitra. There is one Padmashree.. (Interruptions) सभापति महोदय : अब कनकलूड कीजिए।

… (Interruptions)

SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN (CHANDIGARH): They are not allowing him even to read one sentence. Sir, senior hon. Members are there. They are not allowing him. This is not fair. Kindly ask them to maintain order… (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Let me try to understand. (Interruptions) Just a minute. I will urge upon the West Bengal people.. (Interruptions) They are not allowing me to read out the contents of the statement.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I will conclude.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have taken 40 minutes.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Just a minute, Sir.

“As estimated, two lakh Bengali-speaking Hindustani families, totalling around eight lakh persons are living in Greater Mumbai. They have made this city as their home. They have totally integrated into the Maharashtrian culture”.

You are trying to make allega76tions against the State of Maharashtra which is basically wrong, and it shall not be tolerated only because this is not the way of dealing with the problem between one State and another. I am telling, this is the story. What they have said lastly is very important. “All these Bengali Hindustani nationals are living here in peace, tranquillity, dignity and they have equal opportunities in all spheres of life”. You just see the Press release. This has been signed by all the people… (Interruptions) This is the Press statement given by those people. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Madhukar Sirpotdar, have you completed?

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I am concluding.

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is your last sentence.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : All right. श्री मोहन सिंह (देवरिया): यह किस अखबार में छपा है।

… (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

SHRI JAGAT VIR SINGH DRONA (KANPUR): When he spoke, nobody said a word. But now he is speaking, nobody is allowing him. (Interruptions) They are interrupting…. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Order please.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Let me say all the facts before you. This is related to my constituency. I am placing the facts as to what has happened in Maharashtra so that the Central Government should also come to know as to what kind of development is taking place in the State of Maharashtra. We shall not tolerate if somebody is unnecessarily going to make some false and fabricated allegations in order to spoil the good name of the Maharashtra State.

For that purpose I am committed. I am concluding in a minute.

My earnest request to all my West Bengal people is this: we are not basically against any people of India. We are not against those who are actually Indian people. I say this to ensure that the wrong message should not go to the entire country and the outside world. The State of Maharashtra has been looking after the interests of all Biharis, any people from West Bengal, Uttar Pradesh or Punjab. Number of people are there who constitute the population of Mumbai. (Interruptions)

It is a mixture of people from all nooks and corners of this country and we are protecting their interests. We are giving them free houses also so that such kind of criticism should not be made. Before jumping to any such conclusion based on such criticism, it is absolutely necessary for each and every MP to see the figures, study the things and thereafter they may come out with their criticism. Otherwise this discussion will not serve any purpose.

I thank you very much for giving me time to speak. Thank you.

“>SHRI A.C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM): I am thankful to you for calling me to participate in this debate. I fully join the sentiments expressed by my learned friend Shri Hannan Mollah in this matter.

I am not very happy to participate in this discussion. I feel sorry that after 50 years of our Independence and about 48 years of our great Constitution functioning, this august House has to discuss that a particular city of this country deports some people from one place to another place on the pretext of their being foreigners, on the pretext of their speaking a different language. It is a very sad state of affairs. That is why I contend that I am not very happy to participate in this discussion.

Our country, whether we like it or not, has a legacy, has a history and our social structure is so complex that no party, no religion, no language, and no government can easily erase that legacy and the history easily.

I am coming to Mumbai. Shri Sirpotdar very strongly and very efficiently defended his case. I will call him Madhukarji. Am I right?

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :My name is Sirpotdar.

SHRI A.C. JOS : That is our difficulty. I very sweetly call him `Madhu’.

He belongs to the Shiv Sena. I have very great respect for him because we are very great personal friends. But he is a child of Shiv Sena. How was Shiv Sena born? Shiv Sena was born by the same slogan as `South Indian hatao’. The fight against South Indians gave birth to Shiv Sena. Shiv Sena got strength by wanting to eradicate South Indians functioning in Mumbai. In l970, l972, l974 and l980, it was really a nightmare for South Indians there.

In this context I would like to say that nobody can claim Mumbai as their own city. Mumbai was built by the citizens of this country. Bengalis are there, Biharis are there, U.P. people are there, Tamilians are there and Malayalees are there.

I am coming from a State, which is the southernmost tip of this country, Kerala. We cannot go to that side. We cannot go to the South. It is surrounded by sea. We have to migrate to the North for employment. The density of our population is very heavy. We have 300 million people, or three crore people, educated and literate but without employment. We go to different parts of our mother country and if any city or State is trying to say that that part belongs to them and they are sons of the soil, then this country will be in a turmoil.

This country will have bloodshed. So, my request to the Shiv Sena friends is that the claim that Mumbai belongs to Marathas or it belongs to Maharashtrians, is not proper. I am sorry to hear Shri Sarpotdar saying that they have provided housing and everything to them. We have also participated in building that city. Our contribution can never be ignored. It is not a gratuitous act that you are doing. So, this is a very serious matter.

AN HON. MEMBER: We did not ignore you.

SHRI A.C. JOS :I am sorry that now you are taking care of it. We cannot go anywhere else. We have to live there. So, in every part of India, especially the metropolises, Mumbai, Calcutta, Delhi and Chennai, we have got people from every part of the country and they are all living harmoniously. They all mingle with the mainstream, with the culture of that city, with the culture of the country. I am proud to say that the Malayali-speaking Keralites and the Tamil-speaking Tamilians are speaking better Hindi than anyone of those born and brought up in that State…(Interruptions). I feel that Hindi spoken by the Malayali-speaking people or the Kerala people in Delhi is definitely better than others. They are speaking articulated and chaste Hindi… (Interruptions). Marathi also they are speaking. So, what I am urging you is, please, for heaven’s sake, do not segregate people on the basis of religion, language or the place of birth. The question here is – and a very valid question – that illegal Bangladeshi people are there. But that will not confine to Bangladeshis alone. Sri Lankan people are there who are speaking Tamil. What do you do with them? Punjabi-speaking Pakistanis are there in Kerala. What do you do with them? Urdu-speaking Muslims are there in Kerala. What do you do with them? Nepali-speaking Nepalese are there. What do you do with them. Our country, fortunately or unfortunately, is like that. We have a very vast boundary. We have got Sri Lanka on one side, Pakistan on this side, Bangladesh on that side, Nepal on the upper side and Myanmar on the other side. We are fortunate or unfortunate to have them. So, we have to deal with them very carefully. Shri Hannan Mollah has suggested that when they find that illegal Bangladeshis, illegal Sri Lankans, illegal Nepalese or illegal Pakistanis are there, or if they suspect that somebody is staying there illegally, they should be taken into custody and asked to produce proof. Then only action should be taken against them. Without that, if in a clumsy way if they suspect anyone and deport him handcuffed, that is not proper. I was sorry to hear Shri Sarpotdar saying that they are handcuffing everybody. It is a very uncivilised way. It is only for those who commit heinous crimes like murders or other such crimes that we handcuff them. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : The Supreme Court has prohibited it.

SHRI A.C. JOS : Yes, the Supreme Court has prohibited it. For small things, for very minor things like staying back without passport or staying even when the life of the passport is over, they should not resort to handcuffing. Will they do it to a rich person? Will they do it to an affluent person? No, they will not. They will do that only to the poor people, to the illiterate people, to beggars. To rich and affluent persons, they will give luxurious treatment for taking them away.

They are talking about the incident that took place at the railway station. But what was the final result? There were certain West Bengali people also there.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE :More West Bengalis.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :What should be their position?

SHRI A.C. JOS :This is what I am saying. The hon. Home Minister is here. Taking into account the complex nature of our country, we have to have some procedure by which the foreign nationals who are illegally staying back in this country can be identified and deported. We have no objection to that. Our country is not for illegal immigrants to stay back. We are facing problems because of that.

But we have to consider how we can protect it. Tomorrow, suppose they take some Tamil-speaking people and put them behind the bars saying that they are Sri Lankans, then, we will be in trouble. In the Southern tip of this country, we have enough Punjabi people. We treat them as our brothers. We receive them with all dignity and they are doing their businesses. They have their gurudwaras, their places of worship. We do not do anything. We do not know whether they are Pakistani Punjabis or Indian Punjabis. So, there should be some procedure which this country has to lay down. My humble submission is that Shiv Sena people are now reaping what they had sown years back. They started with South Indian people. South Indians are there in large number. They are also suffering. Now, people started not migrating to Mumbai because the new people are not permitting them to live there.

The same thing is happening in the name of religion. I am slightly digressing. I would draw the hon. Home Minister’s attention to what is happening in Gujarat. On July 6, the body of a Christian was buried. There was some dispute relating to the cemetery. A small minority community objected to the cemetery. Finally, the matter went to the court. Then, the Christians succeeded in the court and the court decided in their favour. In that cemetery, a body was buried. After a few days, that body was exhumed and put before the church. Finally, the panic-stricken Christians took it to the river side and buried it there.

I raised a point regarding burning of The Bible in Gujarat. In Gujarat, the minorities are facing a great trouble. My request to Shri Sirpotdar and to the hon. Home Minister is that, whatever be their defence to a particular incident, it is the psychology and the approach towards the problem that matters. They may not be doing anything tomorrow or day after, maybe they may avoid this particular incident, but the message goes that the minorities cannot live in this country properly and that the people of West Bengal, the people of Kerala or the people of South India cannot live in Mumbai. That is a dangerous thing. The psychological strength and confidence is what is required to be built by the Government. I do not say that a particular incident is there. In Gujarat, everyday, something is happening against the Christians and other minorities. A church is being demolished. What action have they taken? The Government of Gujarat did not take any action. The message goes to a minority community. There is no minority in India. My hon. Home Minister will agree with me that majority in Kerala may be minority in other States and minority in other States may be majority in some other place. Can even the VHP people say that there is any majority here? In Gujarat, Bajrang Dal and ABVP are instrumental today. I have not heard about that. I plead that I do not know about them. In Kerala, it is not there. We are lucky in that respect. ….(Interruptions) ABVP is there. ….(Interruptions) Please do not bring them there. We are very happy without them.

I would request the hon. Home Minister that by the action of the Home Minister, confidence is to be instilled in the minorities and in the people from different States. Our Constitution so validly and so reverentially put it in the Fundamental Rights that as citizens, we can go to any place, we can worship any religion, and we can stay at any place. But what more safeguard can they give to? If that is not adhered to, our country will be torn into pieces.

My submission is that Maharashtra Government should be told that – I still believe that Mumbai is not anybody’s property – it is the property of the Indians. Geographically and historically, it happened to be there as also every city of the country. This problem specially comes in from Mumbai.

20.00 hrs.

That is because of Shiv Sena. So, the fear complex of the minorities should be erased, confidence must be instilled in them and everybody in the cities should be allowed to live peacefully.

SHRI MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATMI (DARBHANGA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is now 8 o’clock. We can continue this discussion tomorrow.

MR. CHAIRMAN :If the House agrees, we can continue upto 8.30 p.m.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATMI: No. We can take it up tomorrow. (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA (CALCUTTA NORTH-EAST): Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is quite late. Let us continue this discussion tomorrow.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Mr. Chairman, Sir, the sitting of the House has been extended only upto 8.00 p.m. earlier. So, it would be better to continue this discussion tomorrow.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Tomorrow, there is another discussion under rule 193. So, we can continue this discussion upto 8.30 p.m. Shri Ajit Kumar Panja.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Fatmi, please take your seat. I have called Shri Ajit Kumar Panja.

“>SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA (CALCUTTA NORTH-EAST): Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is a very sensitive issue and we have to discuss it very carefully in this House. We should not discuss anything nor make any comment which might affect the people in various States, not only Bengalis but also others.

Sir, the people of any State are free to visit other States not only for their movement, but also for their vocation. Therefore, my respectful submission to all the Members is that – I have gone to Mumbai and we came back only yesterday after talking to the people there – we should not say anything or make any comment even lightly which may affect those people who are looking at us, the Lok Sabha, for total unity of India.

Sir, the issue being very sensitive, we must always remember the backdrop of what is happening in the name of Bangladeshis and the people of West Bengal speaking Bengali. A division or a sort of difference was sought to be created by Shri Hannan Mollah by saying `Bangladeshi Banglabashi’. There is no such division. The history does not recognise any such division.

In 1905, India heard the Britishers saying that partition of Bengal is a settled fact. At that time, it was Shri Surendra Nath Banerjee who stated this boldly and openly, loud and clear: “I shall unsettle that settled fact” and partition was avoided. Hundreds of lives were lost. Then, in my young days I had seen riots in the streets of Calcutta, one Hindu brother killing another Muslim brother, and one Muslim killing another Hindu. After a lot of bloodshed, India got freedom at midnight.

But before that everybody sacrificed. But most of the sacrifice was done by tearing the entire heart of Bengal apart by which East Pakistan was born and West Bengal came into being. The same thing happened with Punjab. We must not forget this. Therefore, this special sacrifice was made and the poet cried:

“Gonga amar Ma, Podda amar Ma

Dui Chokhe dui joler dhara meghna jamuna

Eki Akash Eki Battash,

Kanna Haasi Eki Uttas.

Doel Koel Pakhi dake eki urchna”

English translation of which reads something like this:

Ganges is my mother, Padma is my mother.

Two rivers are like tears of my two eyes falling down.

The skies are the same.

Singing or laughing or crying at the same time.

We are the same birds singing the same tune.

Nazrul Islam, Tagore, Kabeer all joined together made India. Therefore, in our own National Song by which this House rises at the beginning of each session every time meticulously and correctly Tagore started it with

“Punjab, Sindhu, Gujarat, Maratha,

Dravid Utkal Banga…”

He could have started with Bengal. But he started with

“Punjab, Sindhu, Gujarat, Maratha,

Dravid Utkal Banga…”

Take one flower – Bengal – out, the garland falls down from the bosom of our mother India. Take Punjab flower out, the garland falls down from the bosom of mother India. Maratha, Punjab, Sindhu, Gujarat are the middle pendant in the bosom of the Mother India like a necklace. This is the thing. Here Hindu, Musalman, Buddh, Christian, Jain, Parsi, Sikh are together. There should not be “Jater namey bajjati” in the name of caste something else to be done which is against India. There cannot be like Nazrul Islam said “Hindu na ora Muslim oi jigassey kon jan”. Who is asking as to who is HIndu and who is Muslim – “kandari taba khujiche madhu santan more mar” My Mother India is searching for a real and correct son “Durgama giri kantara maru, dustara parabara hey”. That was the theme uttered a long time ago by Nazrul Islam. This country gave birth to Tagore. On the one hand, he wrote the National Anthem Jana Gana Mana Adhi nayaka jaya hey, on the other hand, he wrote another National Song of an independent country “amar sonar bangla ami tomay bhalabasi”. How can you separate it from Bangladesh? Therefore, I was shocked to find the division in the mind of the CPI(M) leader, Shri Hannan Mollah… (Interruptions).

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA (CALCUTTA NORTH-EAST): Sir, I am not yielding… (Interruptions)

SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH (ULUBERIA): Sir, he is misinterpreting me… (Interruptions).

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat.

SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH : Do you want Bagladeshis to come here and stay in India?

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :Yes, I do.

SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH :Then you are anti-Indian… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let him complete.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :Sir, we have made this world a very small place. It is the civilization that matters. Bangladesh is our very good friendly neighbour. If Bangladeshis come over here, there is no harm. The point is whether he is really a Bangladeshi and has got proper entry documents to come in. Human beings, in isolation, should be not touched. The point should be whether he/she is a Bangladeshi with proper visa and passport to visit India and it should not be that, because he is a Bangladeshi, therefore he should be rejected. We must be very careful about this. This is the cultural bond. So, in this cultural background, hon. Members should appreciate such feelings. If you come to Krishnanagar and Mushirabad, I will show that there are houses where the bedroom lies in India and the kitchen in Bangladesh and vice versa.

This artificial barrier had to be made for the freedom of India. That is why, my respectful submission to the hon. Home Minister, who is present here, is that certain points have not yet been clarified. When this was the situation after Pakistan was created, it was our great and dear leader, the then Prime Minister, late Shrimati Indira Gandhi, along with Bangabandhu Mujibur Rehman created history by creating a nation. We must always remember that thousands of lives were lost. At that time, under the great leadership of Indiraji, we allowed people to come and settle all over here, and we also tried to rejuvenate the economy of Bangladesh. But unfortunately, when we lost Bangabandhu Mujibur Rehman, things changed, military rule came in and then democracy set in. Now, we have a friendly neighbour under the leadership of Mrs. Hasina. It was reported in the newspapers and it has not yet been contradicted by Dhaka that Mrs. Hasina had stated that not a single Bangladeshi was in India. So, we have to be very careful about this. It is not a question of Maharashtra and Bengal or a question of Maharashtra and Kerala, but it is a question involving domestic as well as international law. Mrs. Hasina is saying from Bangladesh that not a single Bangladeshi is in India.

I had been to Maharashtra and the Maharashtra Government, with the permission of the Metropolitan Magistrate, is sending them back. When the man goes to Bangladesh, Mrs. Hasina says `get back’. Then, when he comes over here, we ask him to go back. Are they shuttlecocks to be treated in this way? In the Lok Sabha, do we deal with a human being in this manner without determining who he is? The House must realise that the Foreigners Act of 1946 is a creation of the British. According to Section 9 of the Foreigners Act of 1946, the burden of proof lies on the poor man and it is for him to prove that he is an Indian and not a Bangladeshi or a Nepali. How is it possible when the educated are only 33 per cent and the people living below the poverty line are 35 per cent?

I went there and met the people there. My colleague, Shri Akbar, was with me. The moment we entered, hundreds of men and women, in the age group of 18 to 35 years, started saying “Akbarda, please help. They are saying that we are Bangladeshis.” We have seen it ourselves. Therefore, it is not a question of failure of one Government, but it is a failure of the sense of direction. Section 9 of the Foreigners Act of 1946 says “You prove that you are not a Bangladeshi or a Nepali or a Britisher.” Things have changed in the past 50 years of our Independence. One century is coming to an end and we are entering into the next century, that is, Twenty-first Century. Hon. Members, please realise that the Britishers made the Passport Act of 1922 in their own manner and the burden of proof lies on the concerned human being.

Today, the developed countries are shouting about human rights and asking India to learn about human rights, environment. They are teaching India, which has a cultural tradition that is thousands of years old, to know the value of human rights. The great people of India realised the Atma long ago. “Know Thyself” was the slogan of our great people who created the Upanishads, the Gita, the Koran and the Bible.

Under these circumstances, the first thing to be done is this. As rightly pointed out, one is in majority at one place and in minority at another place. So, this House should pass a Resolution requesting all concerned that no Government should utter a word about it. One crore Bengali-speaking people are there all over India. I am only referring to the Bengalis and I should have quoted others also.But that is not the subject matter.

Similarly, I am having the best of feelings for the last 40 years with Tamilians at many places and with Maharashtrians, Hindus and Muslims, Buddhists, Jains and Parsees all over my Constituency. My Constituency is a miniature India. I know where the shoe pinches and where it hurts. Therefore, kindly appreciate that out of these 1 crore people, 8 lakhs now remain in only Mumbai and outside, leaving aside Nagpur which has a railway station on the Bengal-Nagpur railway line. We should not forget history. It grew up with the railway system founded by the Britishers who came in there and founded Writers’ Building there, and the Bengal Intelligence was taken up and the railway system started. This is the history in which it started. Therefore, it is my respectful submission before you.

In this background, let us see what has really happened. We went there. We met the hon. Deputy Chief Minister at 9.30 on 31st July. We had a detailed discussion. With my background in politics and law, I put pointed questions to the Deputy Chief Minister, Shri Munde and also to all the senior officers who were kept ready, one by one from the Chief Secretary up to the Officer-in-charge and the chargeman who actually was in charge and the SB Intelligence Officer who was actually in charge of deportation. All questions were answered. As a Bengali, I should not hide any truth. All questions were answered by the Officers and in my long experience, I have never seen such an instance where the Police Officer, the Chief Secretary and the Deputy Chief Minister promised to give all files. Taking up the documents and handing them over to me, they said “Mr. Panja, you wanted this. You take this. You study it. Tell us where we are wrong. We will have it corrected. Tell us one case where we have gone wrong. We will recall all orders and we will examine them thoroughly.” These are the words which they have spoken. They asked me “Do you want to go to any place?” The Deputy Chief Minister, Shri Munde, a young man with such an open heart, told me “Mr. Panja, we are not going to select the place where you will go. You select the place yourself. You can go anywhere.” By that time, Shri Akbar from Srirampur and a lot of other people from Patna already came and met us in the hotel and, therefore, we on our own selected some places at random and we went there. Hundreds of people were there. They were only saying “Please see, the local Police Station is creating problem as the local Police Station in West Bengal and Kerala creates problem.” They named them. I should not say those things here. I will give it to the hon. Home Minister. They gave the names of three local Police Stations.

SHRI AMAR ROY PRADHAN (COOCHBEHAR): You tell the names of those Police Stations now itself.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : No. I have brought the names of the Police Stations which are required. We want to solve the problem. We do not want to earn name or to create some big news about ourselves. Please understand.

When we asked for these details, everything was given. Therefore, transparency and accountability of the Government was there. Then we met the Chief Minister at 5.30 the same evening. We studied the documents in the meantime. We took those documents to him and in front of the officers, he said “Mr. Panja, you have seen the documents. Tell us where they are wrong.” I have pointed out several lacunae. One, the addresses of the persons must be fully written from where they have been arrested in Mumbai, what addresses they have given in West Bengal and what addresses the Intelligence found out in Bangladesh. Those were absent in the list. It was a serious lacuna. They accepted it. They immediately said “Yes, let us go to the next point.” Then we pointed out the addresses of two ladies who gave their addresses as Rampurhat, Birbhum, Bangladesh. It was absolutely wrong. I asked the Chief Minister “Who has prepared this?” If there is one single wrong entry, the law lets them escape. The innocent must not suffer. Then they immediately started consulting and asked for time. It went down very well.I said: “You go and take your time and check it up.” In that list, the distinction between male and female was absent. I said: “It is a must because Muslim women have got their purdah and Hindu ladies must be taken carefully. These details are must even from the angle of human rights.” The Chief Minister immediately asked us to tell as to what was required to be done. We mentioned three things. We said: “Firstly, stop this immediately and no further action be taken as I have prima facie succeeded in pointing out the case before you.” He did not say anything. He said: “Let me consider this.” I asked him to stop that immediately. I said: “All the cases that have taken place this year, the 92 of them, be looked into by the senior officers very carefully.” He said: “All right, let us check them up.” There were three categories of persons. One, those who could not produce any document; two, those who produced the document; and three, those who produced the document and were released forthwith. Unfortunately, they did not give the list of persons who were released, although they showed me the list. I told them to bring the confidence in the minds of the people. I said: “You examined 100 cases. Out of that, 50 of them you released and 50 were detained for these reasons.” The details were in the files but the files were not given to the public. These details must be given to the hon. Home Minister…(Interruptions)

PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Since, hon. Shri Panja has visited Mumbai, can he enlighten us about the fact whether the Government of Maharashtra has taken any steps against the Bengalis staying there? If your case is of not providing certain details, it is a technical mistake that took place at the lower level. What is the point? We would like to be enlightened on that. If the Government of Maharashtra is exonerated, then there is no case of discussion here.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR :He said that he would continue…(Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN :You please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :So far as this question is concerned, I am nobody to answer this. This information can be obtainable from the Home Minister. Shri Buddhadeb Bhattacharya is writing a letter to the Deputy Chief Minister who is incharge of Home. They can exchange letters and find out the details…(Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Panja, please conclude.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Pramothes Mukherjee, take your seat. You will have your chance.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :After hearing us, the hon. Chief Minister immediately directed on the same day saying that all deportations be stopped until Puja, that is, for three months it is stopped. We have been told that they have started examining each case as we submitted the details. We had suggested that there must be a cell. The West Bengal Government cannot shirk out their responsibility. It is the claim of the people of West Bengal who go to Mumbai for doing some Zari work or the work of goldsmith. What is the harm in it? We had asked that the District Magistrates of three districts Midnapore, Howrah and Hoogly be empowered to issue certain documents so that these people can carry certain documents with them… (Interruptions)

SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH :How can they carry the documents with them? They are in the same country…(Interuptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :They will shout without even hearing me…(Interruptions)

20.25 hrs.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :Please hear me. This was the case… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Sir, this was the case (Interruptions) They are not understanding…. (Interruptions)…This was the case made by them that a certificate had to be produced… (Interruptions)… You please wait and hear me… (Interruptions)… We said, `it is impossible. If you ask for a certificate for me, I have not got the certificate. It is impossible to give a school leaving certificate. It is impossible to bring the ration card.’ We have also heard that the certificate produced was torn off.

Therefore, Sir, for an Indian citizen, the question of any certificate does not arise. Work certificate for Bangladeshi, if he wants to cross over can be obtained. Therefore, as I said, it is a question of international law and domestic international law, in which Bangladesh Government, Government of India, and the Governments of West Bengal and Maharashtra should immediately form a cell or a committee. It is a very touchy subject.

Firstly, I have given the proposal to the Chief Minister to form a cell or a committee to look into this matter. Secondly, deportation has been stopped. Thirdly, all pending cases are being re-examined. Fourthly, in Bengali language a leaflet has to be issued telling the people to remain absolutely free of any fear and with their heads high.

I am grateful to the Chief Minister and the Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra who said, “Shri Panja, please tell your colleagues, if any enquiry or any other thing happens, please direct him to bring it to our notice directly or through the PRO of West Bengal Government to our PRO. We will immediately look into it.”

Sir, Shri Hannan Mollah did not do justice, and he is, therefore, shouting. He read some lines of the letter of Shri Buddhadev Bhattacharya, dated 27/28th July, 1998.

MR. SPEAKER: Panjaji, please conclude now.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA :In that letter, Shri Buddhadev Bhattacharya also writes:

“…However we have collected information that some of these persons are actually Bangladeshis.

But Shri Hannan Mollah did not read this line… (Interruptions)…Therefore, it is my respectful submission that some people in the West Bengal Government are trying to take advantage of this situation only for the purpose of getting political advantage in the matter and nothing else… (Interruptions)…Sir, they are doing it intentionally. They have not disowned. They are talking about deportation. We are from Trinamul Congress. Can they guarantee, I can walk to Panchkula? Can they guarantee for our 120 people… (Interruptions)…Our Bengali people from Mumbai are coming to Bengal during the Durga Puja and Eid and they are bringing with them some valuable things, for example, golden ornaments and geenva for their mothers and sisters. But when they reach Kharagpur, in the Geetanjali or Howrah Mail, two types of people come in there and tell them that `you are Bangladeshis.’ On saying who they are, one man says that he is a `red coolie’, that is, porter with a red signal, the official porter. Another man says that he is a `Neel Coolie’ that is, a blue porter. But who are these blue porters? They are the* of Marxist Party, this very Marxist Party…. (Interruptions)… These people coming from Mumbai are looted of all their belongings at Kharagpur by these blue porters… (Interruptions)…

The Central Government must form a Cell and protect these Bengalis from being looted… (Interruptions)…They are doing it in other way… (Interruptions)…They are politicking and making the whole of West Bengal out of control of anybody.

Another system is there called `the push back system’. (Interruptions)

This push back system is unknown in any democracy. It is known as one of the methods of throwing peaceful citizens out of the country. (Interruptions)

This has been adopted by the Communists. (Interruptions) Look at the way they are behaving in this House. If this is the way they are behaving here, you can imagine how they would behave in West Bengal. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ajit Panja, please conclude now.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Sir, I will go on speaking if they do not allow me to speak. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please resume your seat now.

… (Interruptions)

____________________________________________________________________________

* Expunged as ordered by the chair

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Shri Jyoti Basu cannot control them in West Bengal. Shri Buddhadeb Bhattacharya cannot control them there. Shri Somnath Chatterjee cannot control them here. (Interruptions) You may please ask them to take their seats. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Panja, please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: If there is anything objectionable, it will be expunged. Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Look at the way they are behaving.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please resume your seats. Let Shri Panja complete his speech.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : He will say anything he wants and we shall tolerate it. How can it happen? (Interruptions) This is disgusting.

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please resume your seats. This is not good.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : This is what they do in West Bengal. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Panja, please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI PRAMOTHES MUKHERJEE (BERHAMPORE) (WB): He should apologise.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, how can I stop hon. Members from this side if this type of a language is being used? (Interruptions) He is a responsible Member of this House. If he behaves like this, how can we tolerate it? (Interruptions) There is a limit. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Panja please take your seat. I have called the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request Shri Ajit Panja to first withdraw the word that he has used. After all, every Party – whether it is my Party or Shri Somnath Chatterjee’s Party –

has a sense of pride in itself and it is this that makes for Parliamentary culture. Therefore, I can understand their anger and I would request him to please withdraw this particular word that he has used. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ajit Panja, let the hon. Minister complete.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : He has completed his submission and I am responding.

When the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and the House along with Shri Somnath Chatterjee feel that calling Marxists and addressing them as `goondas’ is unparliamentary, I withdraw it. (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE :The entire House has seen what he has said. I hope, the country has also seen it. If this is the way to respect the sentiments and maintain the decorum of the House, I hope the whole country has seen it. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It will be expunged.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Sir, 120 people have been butchered. To whom is respect to be given? (Interruptions) It is reported that 80,000 Bangladeshis have been deported to Bangladesh in ten years by the State of West Bengal. (Interruptions) There has been no contradiction of the news item appearing in the front page right hand side column in The Ananda Bazaar Patrika dated the 2nd August, 1998.

Sir, my respectful submission is that the hon. Home Minister should call for the details. … (Interruptions) We condemn the attitude of the State Government. … (Interruptions) The particulars must be sent to the Home Ministry because Shri Buddadeb Bhattacharya has been saying that the State Government is informing the Union Home Ministry from time to time.

Last year, 200 alleged Bangladeshis were identified and sent back to Bangladesh by the West Bengal Government. What was the system followed? It has been said that human rights are involved in this issue. I have seen, in Maharashtra each case is backed by the court permission and each case is backed by a file and an Intelligence report. It may be right or wrong. But a procedure has been followed according to law. What is the law followed by the West Bengal Government? Shri Lalu Prasad rightly said that just because somebody is coming from the State of Bihar, they are thrown out. If it is so and if it is legal, then the records must be produced here.

Sir, the Government of West Bengal is sending back the so-called Bangladeshis through BSF. The same procedure has been followed by the Government of Maharashtra also. But it is objected to. Then, what is the procedure that the Government of Maharashtra should follow? They enter through North 24 Parganas, Nadia, Murshidabad, Padma River, Jalangi and then they cross the river and come to Farraka Barrage, then through Purnia in Bihar they come to our country. Police in Bengal border is taking money from the Bangladeshis and sends them to India. If that is not correct, let the reports be sent to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. … (Interruptions)

Sir, last but not least, the Maharahstra Government has told us that Shri Indrajit Gupta has passed an order and that these things are done by meticulously following that order. What is that order passed by Shri Indrajit Gupta? Let that be clarified by hon. Home Minister.

My respectful submission is that let us not allow our emotions to be charged. Let us solve this problem very carefully. Bengali-speaking people and the people of West Bengal should be protected. … (Interruptions)

Sir, they are shouting for the purpose of vote. But we are concerned with the human rights and the protection of Bengalis. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please, no running commentary.

SHRI AJIT KUMAR PANJA : Sir, you are surprised, but we are not surprised by what they are doing.

Sir, my respectful submission to the hon. Home Minister is that the Government should form a cell with the representatives of the Government of Bangladesh, the Central Government, the Government of West Bengal and the Government of Maharashtra in order to solve this problem and see that the people of West Bengal are protected. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : The seven-Member Party has taken forty minutes. Give us adequate time. … (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : He should not mention that.

MR. SPEAKER: Do not waste the time.

“>SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE (PANSKURA): At the very beginning, I would appeal to the House not to politicise this very serious problem that we are facing. If this is happening in Maharashtra today and if we do not stop it now, it may happen elsewhere tomorrow.

Therefore, please take it seriously and do not try to politicise it. Petty political considerations should not be counted for solving this problem. This is my first appeal. Secondly, I would like to point out one thing. West Bengal faced a very big problem when our country was partitioned — a huge number of people came from the other side and became Bengalis because they came as refugees; and thus, we have a very serious problem of over-population. Even then, I would like to point out that in West Bengal, there are people not only in Calcutta but also in many villages, who are not only from neighbouring States but also from far off States. It should be understood.

Who are the principal workers for whom we are fighting today? Most of the workers in most of the factories, jute mills, etc., which are being closed down today belong to the States of Orissa, Bihar, UP, etc. Are we not fighting for them, just like we are fighting for the Bengali workers? So, let the Parliament and all my respected colleagues feel the agony of West Bengal; we extended the heart of West Bengal to all without any discrimination. This is what we have to do everywhere.

I would not like to give a long speech because that will be too much and the time is also just quarter to nine. But I would like to point out a few things which are important and which have been said at different places. Probably, it would have been better if they were not said at all. I would like to refer to some of these things for guarding our future because unless we guard ourselves against these things, this will not remain the future of a particular State at a particular time.

Shri Sirpotdar had said that the West Bengal Government must apologise to the Maharashtra Government. I would like to ask Shri Sirpotdar whether it was not the duty of the Maharashtra Government to send a list of those who were being pushed out, in advance, to the West Bengal Government. It is because, our Government has already taken a decision that if there is any complaint that would be coming about those who are living illegally, then their addresses would be sent to the respective Collectors of those districts; and the respective collectors would go or send some persons to those addresses to find out whether they are from other countries, that is Bangladesh, or they are from West Bengal, that is, the citizen of India.

Is it not a good way of saying these things? That did not strike him!

I hope that he will think over whether this should be the type of our attitude in determining who is who, and how to control this problem. At the same time, I fully agree that this thing has to be done in a humanitarian way. After all, all are human beings. While all this was going on, I was feeling that about Bangladeshis, we are creating such an impatient feeling. But when people from Europe, that is, from Britain and many other Western countries are here, they stay on. All of them do not have proper passports. Why is there no such hullabaloo about them? I think, we should be applying the same kind of yardstick towards all of them. We should move according to the law.

I am sorry to say that day before yesterday, when Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi went to West Bengal, he said that the Government of that State was not cooperating. I do not know what was the basis of Dr. Joshi’s saying that. If there were any such reference, our Minister of Home Affairs could very well have taken it up with the Government of that State. Ours is a federal polity. There is the Central Government. There are also State Governments. So, there must be proper coordination amongst them. Despite that, in this volatile situation, was it correct for Dr. Joshi to go to West Bengal and make this unfounded statement? If he had something, he could very well ask Shri L.K. Advani: “This is what I have heard. You get it checked up.” But that was not done. These things do create a great agitation and unnecessary ill feeling and insecurity. This has definitely to be avoided.I would also like to tell something about my experience. When Shri Ajit Kumar Panja was speaking, he was narrating his experience. Since I did not go to Mumbai with a political mission, my experience is a little different one. I would narrate what I had seen at that time. My brother lives in Mumbai. Whenever I go there, I see him. At that time, their Government had just started functioning. I asked my brother, “What is the situation?” My brother is not a politician. Let it be very clear that he does not belong to my party or any other party. He is just an ordinary respected citizen. That is why I asked him, “What is the position?” He told me, “My dear elder sister, the position is very complicated.” I said, “Why?” He said, “About Bengalis, I can say that at many places, they are being threatened regularly. Secondly, the money is being extracted from them. Without paying money, they are not being allowed to stay on.”

Whether this is done by the police stations or by the Government or by the workers of a particular party or parties is another matter. The question is that this has been happening. If it is happening, then, the responsibility must be owned by the State Government of that area. If such a thing happens in our State, our Government has to take the responsibility.

If it happens in any other State then that State Government must take the responsibility. In this case, can we not expect that the Maharashtra State Government will take the responsibility so that such things do not happen?

As I said, I did not go in a political mission. After listening from my brother I went to that place. I did not tell my identity. I just asked them whether that was true. I wanted to know, was it really happening. All of them just started screaming. Being an elderly woman, they told me, “Didi, what you are saying is quite correct. This is the situation. We do not know how do you come to know about it but it is true that we are in great danger”. So, this is what I found there at that time. Nobody can deny that these things are happening or were happening. Also, nobody can deny that such things must be stopped.

As far as pushing back the Bangladeshis to Bangladesh is concerned, it is true that West Bengal is facing a big problem because of the same culture and same language. It is very difficult to identify them, though the State Government is trying to identify them. This problem of identification is there. We cannot do away with the problem just like that. Whichever case the Government is able to establish, we are trying to send them back. As has been pointed out, Border Security Force is there. A number of people come here, work and then go away. Some people remain in the State as they are not able to go. I believe that this does not happen in West Bengal alone. In think it happens in all the States situated along the border of our country. The West Bengal’s border being a longer border, I think the intensity may be little more here compared to other border States.

This has artificially divided the country. It is very difficult to divide one’s heart. Our hearts have not yet been divided. I myself have come from Bangladesh. Though I am now a citizen of West Bengal for quite a long time, I cannot forget my mother land. Can I? So, please try to understand the situation obtaining in West Bengal while dealing with this problem. I would particularly request the Home Minister to have a close coordination with the State Government of West Bengal, on this subject. Let us together find out, within the law, what we can do in a humane way to deal with the situation. I have already told you what the State Government is trying to do in this regard. Similarly, Maharashtra Government also has to do a lot of things to bring peace. We must also find out as to what Maharashtra can do to ease the situation. Keeping this in mind, one should take this debate in that spirit so that we can really work out a solution. I do not agree with the idea of Shakti Samant or Basu Chatterjee writing something on the matter. Let us find out what are the specific steps that we have to undertake. I would request the Minister of Home Affairs to call a meeting with the representatives of not only West Bengal Government but all the State Governments where this sort of problem is there and find out a proper method to deal with the subject. You may not forget that ours is a multi-lingual and multi-religious country.

Unless we are very careful from now on, our country may disintegrate. It is not a small problem. It is not a problem to politicise. It is a problem of building national integrity in the new context where we are faced with all kinds of problems. I hope the House will appreciate the spirit of what I said, and the Government will take necessary steps. As far as our cooperation is concerned, if things are done in a human way, our cooperation is guaranteed.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, there are 15 Members more to speak on this subject. Should we complete the list today, or should we continue with it tomorrow?

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: It can be taken up again tomorrow, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: This subject will be taken up again tomorrow.

Before the House is adjourned, the Minister of Home Affairs has a statement to make.

—–


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

* Copy This Password *

* Type Or Paste Password Here *

109 queries in 0.214 seconds.