Title: Regarding abduction and release of the Kannada film actor, Shri Raj Kumar.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY (RAMANATHAPURAM): Sir, this is the third day I am trying to raise this issue. Hence I am inclined to thank you reluctantly for having given me chance to speak at last.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There are others also who want to speak. Even the senior Members like Shri Basudeb Acharia are still waiting to speak.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, I am raising an issue which is having grave concern and great ramifications and repercussions endangering the integrity, interest, unity and even the sovereignty of the country. Consequent on the abduction and release of the famous Kannada film actor, Shri Raj Kumar who was released by the notorious criminal and forest brigand, Veerappan. Many people feel that the matter is over with the release of Shri Raj Kumar. But in reality it is not so lot of things are yet to be known. It has got a big history behind it… (Interruptions). Sir, they should not intervene. Let them listen.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What do you want the Central Government to do? Please do not invite trouble.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Palanimanickam, I am asking him to confine to the subject.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, you kindly ask them to listen calmly.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: But you confine to the subject. What do you want the Central Government to do? You just draw the attention of the Central Government. Please do not provoke them and waste the time of the House.
I have already mentioned to him. Why are you interrupting him again?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do not talk about the State Government.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : I am not at all talking about the State Government.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Come to the subject. There are two-three Members waiting for their turn to speak.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Thanks to the inedequate and ineffective strategies adopted by the present DMK Govt., Veerappan is left free to consolidate himself and in that process TNLA and the TNRT which are the well known terrorist and extremist outfits, which are known for their notorious and treacherous activities like damaging and demolishing bridges, TV towers, raiding police stations and killing policemen have now joined Veerappan.
I am not talking without any authority. I was one of the persons who was handling this operation as a former Home Secretary of the then Tamil Nadu Government. So, I can talk with authority with the evidence. Not only that, I am talking with authority of two more important people – Shri Arkesh, who was the Superintendent of Police S.T.F.in Karnataka and who has just left a few months back has given a status report which is with me and that of Prof. Krishnaswamy who was once kidnapped by Veerappan and kept as a captive.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What do you want the Central Government to do?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do not conduct the House yourselves. I am conducting the House. Will you please resume your seats? Otherwise I have to name you. Please do not disturb.
SHRI THIRUNAVUKARASU (PUDUKKOTTAI): Already Dr. Rajkumar has been released. Why is he raising the issue now?… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please come to the point as to what you want the Central Government to do.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : If I am given three more minutes, I will make my point.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No more time for you; you have already taken five minutes.
SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI (SALEM): The floor of this House is not meant for them alone. No allegation has been made against the State Government or the ruling party of the State. What he is speaking is the general opinion prevailing in the State.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, please control your Member. I have allowed him to talk. He has already gone on record with whatever he wanted to say. Now let him come to the operative part. I will not allow anybody to say anything here which is derogatory. If there is anything objectionable, I will expunge it.
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN (TIRUNELVELI): He was the Home Secretary of Tamil Nadu at that time. He knows the facts. Why should they interrupt him? It is his privilege and his right as a Member to speak in this House.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please come to the operative part and ask what you want the Central Government to do.
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : When these people are getting up, I must convince you, Sir. This is an issue concerning both the States and the whole nation.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Am I not a Member of this House? Do I not know that?
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Why are they fighting shy? Are they related to Veerappan and his dubious activities?… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you please resume your seats? Nothing will go on record except the submission of Shri K. Malaisamy. Please ask what the Central Government has to do. Come to the proper point.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : With the notorious background as terrorists and extremists, and linkage with LTTE,TNLA and with Verraooan they want to extend their activities beyond two states in coordination with I.S.I.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What do you want the Central Government to do?
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, unless I tell the background, how will they understand?… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have already given the entire background.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Adhi Shankar, please go to your seat. Shri Pandiyan, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Sir, they are interrupting him.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, I would say about a small instance.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No instance may be mentioned in the ‘Zero Hour’. You have already stated it. You may just say what you want the Central Government to do.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, they have been hoisting their own flag everyday and giving a salute to it in their camp hideout. They want to cut away from the State of Tamil Nadu and form a separate State. They want to cut away ever from the main nation itself. Is it not a secessionist movement? Is it not an objectionable ideology? In such a situation, they want to carry on with their activity. Secondly, huge money has been said to be exchanged in this deal for the release of Dr.Raj Kumar. Not only that the nexus of Veerappan gang with the political big wigs and C.M., T.N. has enabled them to go scot free…… (Interruptions)
SHRI S.S.PALANIMANICKAM(THANJAVUR): Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, everything has been discussed in detail in Tamilnadu Assembly. A detailed reply was given by the Chief Minister. Everything is mentioned in this book…(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What do you want the Central Government to do?
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : The Central Government should interfere and monitor and should not leave it to the State Government alone to deal with. On the other hand, the CBI, the RAW and the IB should be pressed into service to go into all details as to what happened in the whole deal. This is what I want them to do. They have to thoroughly investigate into it and bring forth the truth of the shady deal occurred..… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Subodh Roy.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Adhi Shankar, you are a new Member. I have to name you then. Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) …*
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Subodh Roy may speak.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
* Not recorded
SHRI J.S. BRAR : Sir, the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs is present. We want to know about the statement of the Home Minister.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He has already reacted to your point.
SHRI J.S. BRAR : No Sir. He has not said anything about it.… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Is it the way to interrupt?… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hereafter, it would be better if both the DMK and AIADMK Members from Tamil Nadu are not allowed in the ‘Zero Hour’. That is the only way to escape from trouble.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you had a chance to speak. Likewise, all other Members also should have a chance to speak. There are Members like Shri Chennithala who want to have a chance.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : As the Leader of the Party, I have the right to defend my Deputy Leader. He wanted to say that the DMK Government should be dismissed and they are not allowing him to say it.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, all Members are defended by the Chair and not by you. Shri Adhi Shankar, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Have they got a right to interrupt in the ‘Zero Hour’? … (Interruptions)
श्री जे.एस. बरार : उपाध्यक्ष जी, हम छोटी सी बात कहना चाहते हैं, कोई एशोरेंस नहीं दिया गया।…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He has already reacted to your point. He has already responded to what Shri Mann has said.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is ready to respond to you.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI J.S. BRAR : Sir, we want to hear what the Minister wants to say on our point. We want to know as to when the Home Minister will make a statement.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please resume your seat when he is responding to it.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, kindly allow him to conclude.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, he has already concluded. Even Shri Subodh Roy has already done it.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Adhi Shankar, I have to take stern action against you. You are standing up every time. Please resume your seat now.
…(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What is this? You are a new Member. Who is the leader of your party?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Can you not take care of him? What is this?
SHRI S.S. PALANIMANICKAM : Sir, I am controlling him. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you are a senior Member. I am controlling the House. You are pouring oil to the fire. What is this?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Malaisamy, I have given the floor to the hon. Minister. Please sit down.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : This is a most serious issue.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He has already concluded. I will not allow him to speak.
… (Interruptions)*
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN : The issue of Veerappan is not an overnight phenomenon. Everybody ruled Tamil Nadu and Veerappan is still there.… (Interruptions) It is not an overnight phenomenon. He has not come yesterday or today.… (Interruptions) What are you doing?… (Interruptions)
SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI : You are a silent spectator.
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Mr. Minister, are you supporting the Tamil Nadu Government?
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: Yes, I am supporting the Tamil Nadu Government. What is wrong in it? … (Interruptions) Sir, they do not listen to me.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I decide that nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
* Not Recorded
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you do not allow anybody to talk in the House. I have allowed him to conclude. He has concluded. You are raising the matter again and again. Please do not do that. This is not fair on your part. You are one of the Members on the Panel of Chairmen.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He has already concluded. Again, you are raising the matter.
SHRI J.S. BRAR : Shri Pandiyan, a massacre has taken place. Let him give the reply.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have given the floor to the Parliamentary Affairs Minister. He is responding to it. You are again disturbing and interrupting him.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI J.S. BRAR : Shri Pandiyan, it is a massacre. Let him reply.
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Shri Brar, we will support you.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have already called him.
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, if you permit me, I will conclude in a minute.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have allowed you. You have already concluded. That is all.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K. MALAISAMY : Sir, you have never allowed me to conclude.… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : If lung power alone can play the role and if muscle power alone can stop a Member from speaking, then nobody in this House can speak. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That is not the order of this House. I have allowed him to speak. You can see the record. If you want to see the record, I can show it to you. Please do not say like that.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : He did not react to it.… (Interruptions) He is making his submission. Please allow him to conclude.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have asked him time and again what he wants the Central Government to do in the matter. Again, he is going from the North to the South.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: This will not go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
1324 hours
(At this stage, Shri V. Vetriselvan and some other hon. Members came
and stood on the floor near the Table.)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please go back to your seats. This is not going on record.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have asked him to conclude. He is going to the issue of the State Government.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You are doing it deliberately.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Is it unparliamentary? There should be transparency in the working of Parliament. He has a right to speak. Can anybody object to it? When he says that the Tamil Nadu Government should be dismissed, is it unparliamentary?… (Interruptions)
* Not Recorded
SHRI THIRUNAVUKARASU (PUDUKKOTTAI): Yes, it is unparliamentary. How can he say that Veerappan has got nexus with the Government?… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Is it parliamentary that the Presiding Officer is to order you to sit down when you stand up? Do you see the rule? This is the rule. Please resume your seat.
1325 hours
(At this stage, Shri V. Vetriselvan and some other hon. Members
went back to their seats.)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Is this the rule? Shri Malaisamy, please resume your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, Mr. Minister.
… (Interruptions
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: React to whom, Sir? … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Palanimanickam, please resume your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : In the Zero hour, an hon. Member has the right to speak. … (Interruptions) Nobody can interrupt the hon. Member. … (Interruptions) He was stopped. If we adopt that method, nobody can speak. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you are not allowing the Minister to reply.
… (Interruptions)
* Not Recorded
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have given the floor to the Minister.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : If we are not allowed to speak, we will also not allow them to speak. Then, the House will not function.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What are you doing now, otherwise! Will you please resume your seat? Shri Pandiyan, I have given enough time to him. He has expressed it. You can see the records.
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: In the Zero Hour, when an hon. Member is allowed to speak, all the other hon. Members have the right to keep quiet?
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : Yes.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, please respond. I want to adjourn the House for lunch.
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: The issue raised by the hon. Member, Shri Simranjit Singh Mann and other Members today is a very serious issue. It is not a party issue. The Government is concerned about that. I would personally – I have said this in the morning – communicate to the hon. Home Minister the emotions and feelings expressed by the hon. Members and see that some action is taken on that. I have said this in the morning also and I would like to repeat the same again. … (Interruptions)
SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI : What is the response of the Government to the plea which we have made? They are not responding to that. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I cannot compel the Minister to respond.
SHRI T.M. SELVAGANPATHI : Hon. Minister is not responding.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … *
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Ramesh Chennithala.
… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have raised the matter and you do not allow other Members to raise the matter.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : I would like to remind the hon. Deputy-Speaker that in the Speakers’ Conference we have taken a decision.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, you are a senior Member; you were the Speaker of the Tamil Nadu Assembly and you know that in the Zero Hour, the Chair cannot direct or compel the Minister to respond. You know this. Even after knowing that, you have been asking the Minister respond. Please do not disrupt.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : That was till last month. At the U.N. General Assembly, all the Speakers have taken a decision to compel the Minister to answer. We have taken a decision. … (Interruptions)
SHRI S.S. PALANIMANICKAM : You cannot compel the Chair. … (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : The Chair can give a ruling in this direction to the Minister..… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pandiyan, I have called Shri Ramesh Chennithala, he is a senior Member of the House. He is raising a matter in which I am also interested.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN : I am also interested to hear him. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You hear him.
… (Interruptions)